Story Magic

111 - Should you revise or rewrite messy scenes?

• Golden May

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Today, Emily & Rachel talk about revising and/or rewriting messy scenes.

What you’ll learn from this episode:

  • How to know if you should rewrite or revise messy scenes
  • What ‘rewriting’ can look like, depending on your process
  • How Emily & Rachel approach rewriting differently (and similarly!) 
  • Mindset around ‘throwing things out’

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Rachel: https://www.instagram.com/bookcoachrachel/

Emily: https://www.instagram.com/ebgoldenbooks/

Emily:

Foreign. Hey, writers. Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.

Rachel:

I'm Rachel.

Emily:

And I'm Emily.

Rachel:

And today we are talking about fixing up messy scenes.

Emily:

Messy scenes.

Rachel:

We got this question in our tenacious writing program a while back a little bit ago. I don't know. What's time mean?

Emily:

Who even knows?

Rachel:

It's meaningless. Previously, during our hiatus, we got a question. Should you revise or rewrite messy scenes? And I think what this question was asking was, do you just start from scratch to. To redo something, or do you try to, like, get into the wee of sentences and, like, fix them up if they're messy?

Emily:

Yeah, it depends.

Rachel:

It depends. I don't know.

Emily:

That was essentially the. The core of my answer to this. To this tw member, because I feel like it depends on the person, it depends on the scene, and it depends on, you know, your process. I am a huge rewriter. I rewrite. I'm finishing up a draft for submission right now. And so it's the fifth draft of this book, and I haven't even sold it yet. And pretty much I've rewritten at least the first half. Doesn't look anything like it looked like in the first or second drafts of the book. The second half is a little bit closer. But I've just, like, re. Like, I'm one of those people where I will, like, take a plot event and just, like, move it around, like, 16 different times and, like, rewrite it based on, like, you know, like, I'm looking at how the dominoes fall, and I'm like, well, if I move this domino, you know, I'm going to reorganize a bunch of stuff to, like, try to get the best flow for tension and everything. And so I'm learning. Learning that that's part of my process and to accept it. So as I'm starting my new, like, dipping my toes into my new project, I'm really trying to lean into that, to just being like, okay, I'm just setting up dominoes right now. I'm probably gonna rewrite and trash this whole scene. So I try not to, like, draft thinking that I'm gonna keep a scene, which is what I used to do, and then I would rewrite it anyway. And so, you know, it take me a lot of time. But, yeah, I'm trying to embrace the rewriting process, so I'm very pro rewriting. But what about you? What's your process look like?

Rachel:

Well, I think it depends on what a scene needs. Like, I think there are, like, with Caught in the Crossfire, there was a big chunk that I threw out and like, didn't like, those scenes just didn't matter anymore. So like, I did rewrite a chunk of the book, but I wasn't like, changing the scene structure of a scene that already existed. You know, like, it was just fresh and new. And so to me, I wouldn't count that as like rewriting a messy scene because it was like a brand new scene. But when I need to like heavily change a scene that exists, and I'm not like removing that scene entirely, whether or not I like revise it, like through the lines of the scene or if I just like open up a brand new document from scratch and like rewrite it from the beginning. Depends. It literally is like a vibe for me of like, yeah, how. How much work is this going to take? And which would be like a. A lesser amount of work because to me sometimes completely like. Because here's what I do in Scrivener. If I have to really rewrite something. And again, I'm talking about like, cha. Like I'm saving the plot point or I'm saving like, what's happening, but I'm changing like the details of what's going on in the scene or the structure of the scene or whatever. Scrivener has like a split, split window view, which I really enjoy. So I'll have like the old scene up on one window and then the new, like the blank page on like the second window and I will start writing from scratch. And then I'm like, following. I will save what I can save or I'll like, move things around when I can move around. But I consider that like, brand new rewriting. And then when I'm done, I like, delete the old one. I'm like, nope, don't need you anymore. You're going to go to my, my. I will never fully delete it. It's gonna. It gets moved into a folder that I save for later just in case I change.

Emily:

Just in case I need to go get that one line. Yeah, I do a very similar thing. Usually by the time I'm doing that kind of editing, I'm in Google Docs. And so I'll just have, you know, the split. I'll have two tabs open side by side and I'll do the same thing. And that helps me kind of get into the flow of the new one. Like feel out the sentences without feeling like I'm kind of my brain is jumping, you know, over the page. But I do feel like that can sometimes be a detriment. I feel like I understand my process enough now that this isn't as much of an issue for me anymore. But I run into this sometimes with my clients where your brain can get stuck. Stuck on the previous version of a scene and, like, can't. Like, if you're trying to change your character's goals, for instance, that changes how they see everything in the scene. Right. And so it can be really hard to revise while you're looking at it. So sometimes I have some clients that I will advise when they're really rewriting a scene to not even open the old version and to just start from scratch so that they don't have that old version in their head. I oftentimes see this, like when a character. When my clients are going from a zero draft to a first draft. Right. Like the zero draft. We were just figuring out the first draft. We're actually, you know, we're actually trying to achieve stuff with the scene, like certain objectives with each scene. And so you don't want to be stuck in like whatever your brain was playing around with back then. Yes. So I'll be like, don't even look at that. We're just going to rewrite or, you know, plot or whatever from what you remember and what you see now. So I do think that can be helpful if you find yourself really stuck on a scene. Like, it can feel like it's extra work because you have just, you know, you're quote unquote, starting from scratch. But oftentimes it's faster and easier to like, get into the scene as you see it now if you don't have that old one hanging you up.

Rachel:

Yeah, I totally agree. I ha. I'm actually working through revisions with one of my one on one clients right now. And the first couple scenes of his book, we are fully rewriting. And so like this, the whole scene has changed. It is like a brand new structure of everything. It's a completely different scene. And so I had asked him, like, just write it fresh. Yeah, don't look at the old one. Because this client, like loves to. Loves to save. So you, in the, in those moments you feel like deleting, you're gonna miss something. Like, oh, but it was so good what I wrote. And like, what if I want to use it again? Like, save the words. But don't go into this thinking that you're going to like hodgepodge, puzzle piece together a new scene because it does not work like that. So this client had to go through, like, kind of the uncomfortability of rewriting something while not. While trying not to use old stuff because you want to preserve it. Doesn't want to. You don't want to feel like you wasted. Um, and if you feel like your words are particularly brilliant, you're not going to want to throw them away, but save it. So that's why, like, I will have my clients. But I do this also weird. There's just a folder that I have that's full of old stuff, so I can go back and look at it later. But it. In those cases, it's way easier, and it is, like you said, faster to rewrite it than to try and tape different chunks together in, like, call it Frankenstein. Yes. It doesn't work, it doesn't flow. It's not gonna feel as tight as if you have, you know, rewritten it. But if, like. And I also think in my process, where I'm at now, I don't think I would be able to do what I do now. Four or five years ago.

Emily:

Yeah, same. Yeah, I. I do Frankenstein now because it's easier for me to kind of see the news story than the old one. But when I first started, it was very, very difficult for me and I really needed to step away from the old version. And then. But then I would write, you know, I'd write the new version and then I would go back and look at the old version and just make sure I didn't lose any lines or, like, if there were any. Anything in there that I wanted to keep, then I could weave it back in. But it's much easier to write the new version from scratch and then go back and pull stuff from the old one you don't want to lose than it is to try to, like, Frankenstein it together and do all that.

Rachel:

Yeah. I was talking to our. We had an open coaching call in TW a couple days ago, and on the call someone had asked, like, they were. They were debating, like, they had two possible ways to write their story and both of those, like, sequence of scenes, like, made sense in one work. And so they're trying to decide, like, which one do I pick? And like, together, we ultimately decided maybe you just, number one, need to pick one and commit to it, or number two, write both of them. And like, the more that we talked, we kind of like, got to the heart of this fear of wasting effort, of, like, well, what if I pick one and like, it's not right and I have to change it later and like, go Back to the other one. Like, I should have just known what it was. Like, you don't. And we ended up having this really good conversation of, like, I think writing in general, Drafting and revisions would go a lot smoother for everyone if we were less afraid of throwing words out 100%. Like, if we weren't. So, like, it's wasted effort. Never in the history of writing have I met someone. Now, this doesn't apply to me because I, you know, have my own blinders for me, but I've never met a writer that I've worked with where we've done something that was wasted effort.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Ever. Ever. Even if we, like, completely write. If we write a draft and we completely redo that entire draft, and it's a hundred thousand words we throw out and redo. It's never wasted. But everyone is afraid of that. And so you just are like, oh, no. Like, you just moan and wha. About, like, oh, no, I don't want to throw stuff out. Or I. I can just Frankenstein it together. Or I'll freak out about redoing the scene because I don't want to do it. Or, like, I know I should change the point of view to someone else, but I'm gonna have to rewrite the scene. But if we just were less afraid of throwing things out, this would be a lot easier for everybody.

Emily:

It would be so much easier because the reality is, like, you're gonna have to throw some parts of it out if you want it to be good. And I almost. I feel like, okay, so this book that I. The. My second book was on deadline, and that adds extra pressure. Right? Because you're like, I don't. I can't waste time having to rewrite. I don't think that that is a true fear, but. Right. That was the fear that was guiding me then. Then I wrote this book that's going on submission, and I had kind of the pressure of like, oh, I want to get another. Like, I need to get another book out in the world or I'm going to be no one's. Everyone's going to forget me. Right. So I had, like, this. A little bit of pressure. It wasn't a deadline, but it was, like, the pressure to write fast. Um, and I feel like I. I still had that fear of having to rewrite, but as I've already told everybody, the first draft has no. Like, it barely resembles the draft that I'm submitting. Like, and I was able to rewrite it very quickly because as soon as I knew how to rewrite it. It was like, okay, now. Now it's just implementation. And, like, I can do that really fast. And so I think people, like where I quote, unquote, lost time is not in rewriting. It was in trying to write scenes so perfectly that I didn't have to rewrite them. That's where you get slowed down.

Rachel:

Exactly.

Emily:

So with this book, which, to be fair, right. This one that I'm working on now, it's like, I don't have a. A deal. I don't have a publisher. Like, I'm just. I'm just writing this one, and it's not on a timeline. So there is that sort of freedom to it. But I'm also trying to give myself the freedom of, like, this is all just gonna be rewritten. I'm free to just play. And I've already rewritten. I'm trying to figure out a way into the story. Kind of like the person that you were talking about on the coaching call. Right. It's like, I could go this way or I could go that way. And so I've already written. Rewritten the first five chap. Three times in the last three weeks. Like, just trying to figure out a way into the story, knowing that I'm still probably going to throw them out and rewrite them again later. But it's like, if you just accept that, it's just so much easier.

Rachel:

It's so much easier.

Emily:

It's so much easier. Yeah. I could wave a wand.

Rachel:

Yes.

Emily:

And take a fear away from all writers. It would be that fear.

Rachel:

It. And it's like, it's the fear. But then the. The more you do this, the more you realize this is just reality.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Sorry, I. There. Like, there is no. In the existence of. I shouldn't say that. There are very few books that go from first draft to second draft to published. Like, it just doesn't happen like that. And like. Like authors, the. If you can get used to this, you can have way more drafts quicker and more books. And like, that just is the process. Like, that's the fact. The fear is that I'm wasting time throwing words out, and I, you know, have to figure out how to save what I have or reuse what I have, or there's some magic band aid that will connect everything together when the fact is writing is just rewriting. Period.

Emily:

Period.

Rachel:

That's how it is.

Emily:

End of the episode.

Rachel:

That's it. Goodbye. Enjoy your time. Good luck.

Emily:

For real, though, I think that's it. Stop. Stop trying to be perfect.

Rachel:

I'm afraid of It. I definitely think, yeah, stop. Just stop trying to be perfect. And this would be way easier for you. That coaching call that I was on, there were a lot of questions where I was just saying an answer, being like, it's so easy for me to sit here and tell you this, but I know it's hard. Just stop being a perfectionist.

Emily:

Turning it off.

Rachel:

But as far as, like, you know, to touch on the flip side, there are plenty of scenes where I think you can just revise them in line and, like, you don't have to rewrite them. And usually for me, those are, like, I'm maybe changing one scene beat or I'm adding on, like, I'm fleshing out more internal processing or I'm adding a couple lines of backstory. Like, the smaller changes, those are ones that I just do in line. And, like, you know the difference.

Emily:

Yeah. Just trust. Trust yourself, trust the scene, and do whatever gives you the least amount of anxiety. Yeah.

Rachel:

And, like, if you take the fear out of it, it's doesn't matter. Like, either option is going to result in a stronger scene. So, yeah, you got this. Love it. Okay. Good luck.

Emily:

All right. If you want to build a successful, fulfilling, and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.

Rachel:

Sign up now to get our free email course, the Magic of Character Arcs. After seven days of email magic, you'll have the power to keep your readers for flipping pages all through the night. Link in the show notes.

Emily:

We'll see you there.

Rachel:

It's been a while since we've done this.

Emily:

Bye. Bye.