Story Magic

94 - Writing process with Karisa DeLay and Jaime Vendera

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Today, Emily & Rachel talk about the individuality of the writing process with guests Karisa DeLay and Jaime Vendera.

What you’ll learn from this episode:

  • How processes change over time
  • How mindset and process work together
  • Writing as neurodivergent people
  • Lessons for our younger writer selves

LINKS: 

  • Check out Karisa's books: https://www.venderapublishing.com/author-bios/karisa-delay
  • Check out Jaime's books: https://www.venderapublishing.com/author-bios/jaime-vendera
  • Learn more about Vendera Publishing: https://www.venderapublishing.com/

Ready to make readers so in love with your characters they can’t stop biting their nails in anticipation?  Grab The Magic of Character Arcs free email course: https://www.goldenmayediting.com/arcsmagic

Join Tenacious Writing! With the perfect combo of craft, mindset, and community resources, you will build a writing life that feels sustainable, fulfilling, and fun—without any prescriptions or rules. Learn more: https://www.tenaciouswriting.com/

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Emily: https://www.instagram.com/ebgoldenbooks/

Emily:

Hey, writers, welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.

Rachel:

I'm Rachel.

Emily:

And I'm Emily.

Rachel:

And today we are talking about writing process, the individualness, the individuality process itself. With some very special guests. We have Carissa delay and Jamie Vendara on the podcast today. Welcome. Thank you so much for joining us.

Karisa DeLay:

Thank you for having us.

Jaime Vendera:

Absolutely. Thank you for having us.

Rachel:

Of course, you both are the hosts of the Always Right podcast, which we love, and we have been guests on earlier this year, which is amazing. So we're very thankful to have you on with us today. Before we dive into process, would you tell us about yourself, your writing journey, your books, and a little bit about the podcast? And let's have Carissa, would you want to go first?

Karisa DeLay:

Sure, I guess. Yes. So my name's Carissa delay. I'm an author with Bandera Publishing. I have two fiction novels, one nonfiction novel, and I'm working on a fourth book. And I also am one of the hosts of the Always Write podcast where we talk about everything. Writing, editing, you know, process. Kind of the same idea as you ladies. Definitely laid back like you girls, but it's kind of like two different types of author personalities that come together and share our. Our. Our ideas and all that stuff.

Rachel:

Awesome, Jamie.

Jaime Vendera:

So I kind of became an author by mistake. It really wasn't what I wanted to do. I love writing, but I just. I'm a vocal coach, and there really wasn't a lot out there at the time. And so I started writing my first book in 2000. Took about four years. Couldn't find a publishing company interested in taking me on, so I said, well, I'll just do it myself. And I thought that would be the end of it. And then it exploded. And I've. I've written dozens of books on non fiction, but then I also love fiction. So 2008, I started writing fiction novels in horror, fantasy, YA, fantasy, spy, a bunch of different genres, and it just kind of grew from there.

Rachel:

I love that.

Karisa DeLay:

So that.

Rachel:

That actually gives me a really good segue because writing, you said you fell into it by accident, Jamie. So when you first started writing to how you write now, do you find there's a lot. There's difference in your process or. Or maybe there's not, but what's it been like to like, I think I'm gonna do this. So then now you've written dozens of books?

Jaime Vendera:

Oh, no, it definitely has improved. I'm still really. I'm sporadic and I Don't have a, Like a tight process. In the beginning, it was. I was so analytical and I thought I had to write 10 hours a day and I was writing everything by hand. And then I had to transfer to a computer and I was using Microsoft Word at the time. Big mistake, because I remember one day I literally wrote like 14 hours and did not have auto save on. I didn't even know about it. My. I don't know what happened. Went out, lost everything. And to me it was like losing an entire novel. So I'm sure it wasn't that much, but it, like I said, it took four years. So it was a lot of hit and miss and getting over those hurdles of getting consistent and learning something a little more about grammar until I could better place it so that when we send it to our editor, he doesn't have to go through a lot of garbage. At the beginning, I'm sure he had a lot of strokes working with me, but the process has got better. So I have grown. And I'm sure Chris, she's on the. The opposite. And I'm just sporadic. I'm just. I wake up, write whatever comes on my mind, don't worry about the typos, and I fix it later.

Karisa DeLay:

Chris, how I was. Yeah, we're opposites now. So in. Yeah, we're absolutely yin and yang when it comes to most things. But that's what. That's what works with Jamie and I is, you know, that. That balance. But for me, I. In the very beginning, I was more of that, like, structured but flexible routine with my writing. So I've significantly evolved since then to more of a chaotic burst, but trying to be more perfection, you know, more of a perfectionist. Whereas I wasn't very good with grammar in the beginning as well. So I was just writing on the fly, just putting it down there. Um, and the more feedback I got from my editor about how to do things more, you know, cohesive, I feel like mentally that has blocked me from being as free flowing. I've almost become more of like the opposite. I've become more. More. I guess I use the word chaos, but that's how I am. Like, I'm like, oh, I can write, but I have to make sure that when I'm writing it's more concise. Versus before, when I was just throwing stuff on the page just to get the thoughts out and the imagery. I didn't care how it flowed. It was just on there. I just can't get back in that mindset.

Jaime Vendera:

Yeah, I've never left that mindset. We have the same editor, and I love Rich, and I think I told you ladies a story. So I was writing like a book about a mermaid and then a book about living in space and all this, and it was all me. And we used all these different pen names. And I remember my partner had left. He just got too busy with interior design. And I told Rich Dalglish, our editor, I said, well, I know the cat's out of the bag. I know. You know, I write all this. I mean, come on. And he's like, wait, what? You. You're Jamie Lynn Sanders, and you're this one and that one. What? There is no way. He said, when you take on a different novel, it's like you're a completely different writer. And I learned a lot of it from him. But it's small things. I mean, goofy little things I remember, like. Like there was blue, red and black, blue, comma, red, comma and black. Or instead I am. I'm. So I pick up those little things from him, but I still let it flow. And then I'll go back and fix my typos. And then at the end of the day, I'm like, I'm paying Rich anyway. He can fix this.

Rachel:

I love that. It feels like both of you embrace your own brand of chaos to get it down on the page.

Karisa DeLay:

And then I'm trying to keep less work for Rich. Jamie's just adding more.

Jaime Vendera:

Yeah, I'm paying him anyway. He can. He can do. Deal with it.

Emily:

So what is your. I'm so curious, like, what does your process look like? Kind of from when you have the idea to, like, the, you know, the finished product or when you send it to this editor? Like, do you do a lot of passes? Do you do, like, story level edits? Do you just, like, get it out and send it? Like, how. How does it work for you? And like, what does that timeline look like?

Karisa DeLay:

I mean, I'll let you go first since, you know, yours is.

Jaime Vendera:

Yeah, I. No, I. I still do get it ready for him if it's a non fiction book. Since I've done a lot of workshops around the world. A lot of vocal workshops and performance workshops. Any non fiction book, I do, I do make bullet points. And I think of them as if I'm going to get up in front of, you know, a hundred people and teach something. What will be the order, the process? And to those. Those become my chapters. And then I have sub bullet points under them. And then I. After I got the skeleton, then I build the meat as far as fiction goes, I do. I have to do several passes because I'll take notes to make sure I don't mess up. Like, a character has green eyes in one scene and blue eyes in the next. So I try to check all that. So he. He's caught that stuff before, and that's one of the things I learned from him. But I don't have a process for that because for me, it's like I turn on Netflix and the hottest show on Netflix right now. Oh, I haven't seen it. What's it about? What's the next episode going to be? I don't plot it out. I just let it come to me like I'm watching a show and I let my mind unfold it.

Karisa DeLay:

But then, yeah, he's definitely a panther.

Jaime Vendera:

Yeah. But I definitely have to go back with that approach. So non fiction and fiction are two different writers for me. I mean, one is very analytical. It's processed. Rich won't have as much problems with it. The fiction. Yeah, I have to go through it three or four times to make sure that everything's, you know, pretty cohesive.

Rachel:

Right. Karissa, what about you?

Karisa DeLay:

So for me, with fiction writing, so I can envision the end, the goal line, and I will plot out the order in my head how I want the storylines to go. Now, when I wrote my second fiction book, I actually wrote them down like, this is where I want this to happen. There. This is where I want this to happen. It's almost like each chapter, I gave it a brief sentence or two to say where I'm at with that storyline. And then I could rearrange and fill things in like, oh, no, I did this to happen before this. It's the same idea in my head, like, oh, I need this to happen before that. It's almost like I use the term murder board a lot, where you want to have all the pieces connecting, but sometimes you got to sprinkle those in spots. So I have it laid out that way. But when it comes to actually writing, I have to write in order. I cannot write chapter one, chapter 20. I have to do it all in order. And if there is a timeline between when I'm writing, where I'm not writing, I have to go back and start from the beginning. I cannot, like, pick up where I left off. I have to go back, reread now a day, two days. That's different because it's still fresh. But I want to make sure I'm one, not repeating words. Two, I'm also not over, over Describing something I've already previously described, if that makes sense.

Rachel:

Yeah, definitely. And I were just talking about this because we. Because we were sick. As we were telling you, we took a large break off from writing and we actually just. We've recorded a podcast. It. It will be out by the time this one comes out, but about, like, getting back into your story. And we even had, like, different ways of trying to get back into it because I. I feel the same way, Chrissa, where I feel like I have to reread everything and, like, get back into the zone and whatever that looks like. But even that feels different because Emily was. Was a little bit. Like, that wouldn't really work for her because of perfectionism issues or just other, like, needed a different way to do it, you know?

Emily:

Yeah, that would entice me to revise.

Jaime Vendera:

Yeah, that's crazy because I. Same thing. I got to reread it, but I may be like, you know when you go on Facebook and you're like, watching Walking Dead or something, and someone's like, spoiler alert. And then you. You learn something, you're like, God, I haven't got to that part. I'm not that way. I'm excited about it. But I'll be writing and then it'll be like, oh, I thought of something, but it's in the future. It's like three or four chapters ahead, so I have to jump ahead and I write all of it out and then I come back. But that does make it harder for me because then I have to reread a lot to make sure that I. I make sure I glue it together correctly.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah, I keep notes for those kind of things. I keep a side note where it's like hidden mysteries or cryptic messages or different things about that I. Maybe my reader has to figure out on their own. I will keep a side side note for those kind of things. And that way I don't forget them. But also so I remember to put them somewhere in the book if I have to go back and be like, oh, yeah, make sure you put that in there.

Jaime Vendera:

Oh, speaking of forgetting things, Carissa. Yeah. I forgot about your two year sentence that you need, but I'm on it this week.

Karisa DeLay:

Here we are.

Jaime Vendera:

It had to do with a little musical piece. And I'm like. As soon as you say. I was like, no.

Karisa DeLay:

Sorry, ladies.

Jaime Vendera:

And I have no excuse.

Karisa DeLay:

No worries.

Emily:

So do you guys. How do you develop your characters? Does it happen as you're writing? Because it sounds like, Jimmy, you're a big pantser discovery writer. Like, do you. Do you do any work on your characters ahead of time, or does it just come out as you're writing? You can take it first.

Jaime Vendera:

I definitely do not do any. Nope, nope, nope, nope. Well, I'd say it's visual, too, because I'll be like, ooh, I got this. This kid. Pimp. Pimp. The knife. He's got a knife. Oh, no, no. He's got this black hair. And then it just starts folding. I just see this character, and then I write down those notes, and, I mean, there'll be little things I add. Like, I. I had a character, and he was always going around saying instead of a cursing, he was like, them bastages. And I don't know why that stuck with me. And I kind of. I wanted to put that in because somebody at work years ago used to do it. So I'll stick little things in with characters, but it's more mannerisms. It may not be the way they talk, you know, the way they look. That just doesn't unfolds for me.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Karisa DeLay:

What we're going to ask. I'm sorry, Rachel. What are we going to ask you?

Rachel:

Well, I want to circle back around on it because I want to ask you both. So you go first, Chrissa, and then I'll come back.

Karisa DeLay:

Okay. So for character development for me, I typically envision a Persona. Like, do I want them to have a. I guess I'll write it down, but I'll be like, do I want. What kind of conversation do I want them to have? Like, for example, this new book I'm writing, there are three angels. Of course, they're not going to speak as slang as we would, but they've also been around a long time in the human. In the human world, so they're not going to also talk too. Too professional, I guess you would say, or too ancient. But so I envision how this particular character is, and then I imagine, like, just. I don't know, like, for me, it has to be almost realistic. So would it make sense if this person is blonde in this situation or make better sense to this per. I have to completely think about what makes sense in the storyline, if that makes sense. I don't know if that's crazy, but I always have to be like, okay, how would that fit? Okay, this. It would make sense if this person had a limp. I mean, right now, this would make sense if this person. Da, da. You know, So I have to kind of, like, walk myself through their personalities.

Emily:

Yeah, I'm like that, too. I have to think through like, everything. Like, what. What beliefs do they have? Like, what do they want? Like, all of those things. Like, I have to kind of know that even for my secondary characters, in order to, like, have pieces on the.

Karisa DeLay:

Board to play, you have to know how they're going to react to a situation, because then otherwise, it just sounds like the same character all the way through.

Emily:

Yeah.

Jaime Vendera:

Are any of you on Zoom right now? See, that's why me and Rachel are lined up and Emma lined up.

Rachel:

Exactly. Yes. We've got the same. Because what I. This was the question I was gonna ask was, I'm also a pantser, and I just kind of come up with it. But one thing that's, like, drastically changed my process is in, like, the knowledge of craft that I've learned over the years influencing, like, the choices that I make. I'm never gonna be a plotter, but learning about, like, character change helped me decide when I was writing on the fly, okay, I need a character to have a flaw. What's it going to be? And how are they going to act? And then that allowed me to make those choices a little bit easier as I was writing and, like, play around and have fun. So I'm. My question is, do you feel like learning craft or what have you learned from craft that has kind of impacted the way that you write? If anything, like, one that made a big difference for me, too, is, like, learning more about scene structure. And, like, I don't ever plan my scenes. If I do, that's not far in advance. But I know when I'm writing, you know, this character needs to have a goal, so what's it gonna be? And they're gonna. There's gonna be conflict, so what's it gonna be? And that's helped me give structure, like, give boundaries around my work. That's not. It's still chaos. Let's be real. But it's not. Like, it at least feels a little more purposeful to me. Yeah. So what do you think?

Karisa DeLay:

So from my personal experience with trying to develop, like, these, when you're talking about not plotting, and I'm trying to figure out this if I'm answering the question properly, but I have, whatever the plot, little twist or the mini twist that's in the storyline, that itself will kind of echo out through my book for me to be like, okay, to get to this point, I can't just throw this at the reader. So I have to start this somewhere in the beginning. And so I have these little filtered, you know, twists that happen, but I can't make it seem like I just abruptly put it on them. So I have to think back. So for me, I almost have to feel the. The vibration of the coin drop into the water. Yeah. In the beginning of the book.

Rachel:

Right. And you're aware of that. Like when you sit down to write, you're aware, like, I have. I know there's this thing that's going to be happening.

Karisa DeLay:

So. Yeah, no, I'm sorry.

Rachel:

Yeah, I was gonna say.

Karisa DeLay:

I was just.

Rachel:

You're. You're like planning those ripples ahead of time.

Karisa DeLay:

Right. And. And if one of. If a coin drop happens while I'm maybe in chapter six and I'm like, oh, this is so much better, I will go back to chapter one and two and find a way to like, briefly put it in there as a snippet or a clue. I always like clues and usually the clues are always there for my reader. You just gotta pick up on them. Yeah, yeah. They're very subtle. But I always make sure that. And I did that. I was terrible at that. My first book, because I had so many unanswered questions that I went back and I was like, okay, I answer these questions. So whenever I wrote that, I asked people like, what kind of questions do you want answered in book two? Because I forget what I put in there for you.

Rachel:

Yeah, I love that you're doing that. And like in like a pre publishing stage, like, what. What's even in this book anymore? I don't know.

Karisa DeLay:

After you read it for. After you read books so many times. Forget you do.

Rachel:

Yeah, I'm like, I don't know what happens.

Karisa DeLay:

Whatever.

Rachel:

I have to go back and reread it. And like I'm. I'm writing the third book in a series right now and the big stuff is there, but like, I've had to go back to book one all the time. What did I even. What were their voices like back then? I don't know.

Jaime Vendera:

I get it. I just read all three sigils, made a bunch of notes and had told Chris this, but I'm like, I would have to reread them. Started like, oh my God. For me, I mean, I've learned a lot. Like, in the beginning, I used to buy every book I could find on Amazon about like grammar and about like fantasy writing and this and that. I read a lot, but I'm like, honestly, for me, I went to school with two people. Rich Dalglish. I have to be submersed in it. I can't read it in a book and apply it.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Jaime Vendera:

All his edits is like, oh, you know, Jamie Lynn Saunders, who was me, this teenager, she doesn't know how to write. She's showing or she's telling, she's not showing. And then same thing with Daniel Middleton. He used to do some writing with me who does my interior design. Just little things they. They would guide me on and I'm like. And it would stick and like, okay. And so if I learn a little bit at a time, then I pretty much always apply it. You know, setting the scene and developing the characters. But it took me years. You know, I write, like I said, I've written a lot and didn't really know what I was doing, even though I've written my whole life. But that's, you know, everybody's different. Like you said, you've taken courses and you've grown. For me, it's just. It's guidance from, you know, mentors.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah.

Emily:

Makes a lot of sense. So you just kind of like collected knowledge that you kind of put into your muscle memory. And now you just, like, apply it.

Jaime Vendera:

With Carissa, too, because there's. I mean, her and I for years have went back and forth and like, I know I have driven her nuts with some of the books she's written. You know, like, what about this? You need more of this? You know, like the.

Karisa DeLay:

The non fiction one.

Jaime Vendera:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The non fiction. Why? My brain just draw a blank. It's like, you need more. You need more torsion energy. You need this, you need that. And you know, I'd mentioned stuff, her, she's like, oh, you know, what about this? What about this? So those are when I'm. I have a tight circle and those are the people. Those three are the ones that really have inspired me and keep me on point with writing.

Rachel:

Yeah, I think that's incredible because we talk a lot on our podcast about how lonely the writing process can sometimes feel, if not when you're experiencing it, but on the outside looking in. And even the topic that I approached you guys with, the individuality of the writing process. Yeah, it's individual, but it's also really collaborative and really, to us, community based. Like, I would not be the writer that I am without Emily, without my alpha readers, without my writing buddies, because I. Yeah, you learn so much from them. You learn a lot. Also, like, the motivation is a huge part of the writing process for me, knowing that, like, I have people who are going to encourage me to keep going. So I think that's a big part of this too. And I, I love that you brought that up just how important it is to have other people around you, that circle in the process. It's not just like you sitting down writing. It's a circle of people that are helping you learn.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah. And it takes. It takes. It takes. Oh, my gosh. I'm stuttering here. But it takes someone you can trust that's going to have your best interest. But at the same time, be honest with you, because you. There are people like, oh, it's great. Which, no offense, my husband's one of those people. It's great. Um, but then I need people that are like, well, I need a little bit more here. But then there's that fine line when someone's, like, way too analytical, and you're like, you know what? I don't want you in my circle.

Rachel:

Yes. No. Legit. Yes. Because you have to have that trust. And as soon as it gets too far, it damages that. And, like, it becomes a really. Writing is so deeply personal. It's so vulnerable. You don't want that. We have a whole training in our program called Feedback Training, where we teach people how to give and receive feedback, how to ask for the feedback that they need, how to tell people, that's not the feedback that I want right now. Please do this instead. Because it's like walking on eggshells sometimes. And if you just get hurt, like, right the wrong way, then it can really damage your relationship with writing and with that person.

Jaime Vendera:

Yeah. Especially when they're like your children. But also if you have these Alpha readers. My. And I've had this happen before. I. I've had some Alpha readers in the past, but then they get so involved, like, it's their book. And, like, why didn't you do it the way I mentioned? And I'm like, it's my story. It's. I'm not. I'm not writing what you want to hear. You know, if you want to do. I'm not being. I'm not being mean when I say this, but that's what you want. Then write your own book.

Rachel:

Yeah. Yeah. Trust is so important. Yeah. So with, like, process itself there. There's so many different parts of this conversation. There's craft, there's showing up, there's planning, plotting, all that. But, like, what's it look like on a daily basis for each of you? Jamie's like, I don't. Not written days.

Jaime Vendera:

Next question. Carissa, you go first. I don't have much to say.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah. Jamie's answer will be really short. It's not happening. His longest writing process is texting me. And it's usually, it's usually talk to text so he's not writing it.

Jaime Vendera:

This is not even an excuse. And because I will. I got so many books to finish. But when I start a book, the problem is, is I teach so much. That's not the problem. When I start a book, screw everything else. I don't want to do anything. I don't want to eat, I don't want to talk to student. I don't, I don't want to go visit my family. I don't want to go hanging out with my friends. I want to write until it's done. And I could literally write. I don't write big books, but I could write two or 300 pages and be done in, you know, in a couple weeks and that would be like, okay. But then I have to shut everything down. So that, that is a fear that I have to overcome because I know when I start sigil, which is soon, I swear to you, Chris, it's like an ongoing joke now. That's my worry. I'm like, oh my gosh. I had to get up at 3am Because I know I'm going to want to write for four hours every day to finish this thing. And it's, it's, that's the toughest thing for me. I get, I get consumed. Like binge watching your favorite show, right?

Rachel:

Yeah, I think we call that hyper focus.

Jaime Vendera:

Yes. And that's not necessarily a good thing.

Rachel:

So yeah, so you're like burst of creativity whenever you can and then. But those days you're, you're writing like literally as much as you can.

Jaime Vendera:

Those days I will not stop. I mean, I'll write for hours now. Like I remember writing one book was maybe 125 pages and it was done in a week. And my partner told me like, how in the world. I'm like, what's the only 125 pages? It ain't that much. You know, what would you do? But I'm like, I'm writing every day. I'm like, okay, it's going to have 20 chapters. I'm going to write two to four chapters a day and I'll be done by this weekend. But that's all I did, you know, my wife come out. Did you eat today? Huh? What time is it? It's seven. I'm like, oh no. So.

Rachel:

And you just, you, it just like you have the energy to keep doing that. You have the idea amount. Like you know, you have enough to say is to get it done.

Jaime Vendera:

I was. I shouldn't even say this on this podcast. This is going to get me a lot of trouble. And I've told this before, if I could do. I love coaching voice, and I love singing. I've been doing it my whole life. I've got to coach some amazing pop and rock stars. But if I could do one thing and one thing only, it would be writing books. Yes, I. And that's. That's. That's the one thing. Like, I love teaching, but at the end of the day, like, whew, I'm so tired. I don't get tired when I'm. When I'm writing. I'm just. But I can write anywhere. I can write out in the forest. I can write sitting on the couch, in the bed. I don't have to have a writing space. I can write on my iPhone, on an iPad, whatever. And you know what? I told Karissa to go first, and I took over, and I can't shut up. So let's pass it over to Carissa.

Karisa DeLay:

I feel like this should be, honestly, an intervention for Jamie. There should be a complete episode for just getting him to take the time to finish a book.

Jaime Vendera:

Because if you three ladies start. Group text.

Rachel:

I was gonna say plot twist. This was a setup.

Karisa DeLay:

Jamie.

Jaime Vendera:

Wait a minute. I don't have a problem.

Karisa DeLay:

This is the thing. If Jamie gets free time, Jamie doesn't use his free time in a way that is valuable to Jamie. He uses his free time that is, like, for someone else, and this is a problem, and I have to deal with this problem.

Emily:

Well, I'm so curious. I'm so curious, Jamie, because you've said, like, this is the kind of thing I'll often hear from someone who's never finished a book, right? Like, oh, I just. I don't have enough time or I need to have more time or whatever. But you've clearly finished many, many books before. So, like, what, 40?

Karisa DeLay:

Or how have you. 40 to 60 books.

Emily:

That's so many books. So, like, obviously you've gotten through this wall before. So, like, what. I'm so curious. Like, what's worked for you?

Jaime Vendera:

It's. Well, I had more time before. I mean, I've been a coach for 30 years, but it's to the point where it's ridiculous, but not ridiculous. Like, even I talked to Chris last year, and I worked in a way to. To narrow it down to just three days instead of five. It's not. It's not even hard. I'm up a five instead of setting. All I got to do is open up sudowrite and work, you know, work on whatever and I'd be done. So I'm finishing my taxes and then I'm starting on them. I'm finishing this week.

Karisa DeLay:

You. You all have witnessed this. We'll see.

Emily:

Taxes are a great recording.

Jaime Vendera:

Ladies group text me Monday and we'll. I'll be like, I'll do the easy thing. I'm like, I threw those three books, those first three books in the pseudo. Right. So they can map out my characters and all that.

Karisa DeLay:

Oh my gosh. Easy.

Jaime Vendera:

All right.

Karisa DeLay:

I don't even remember the original question. What was the original question?

Rachel:

What's your writing process look like on the daily.

Karisa DeLay:

Oh, gosh.

Jaime Vendera:

So 10 minutes later.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah, right. My writing process is. Has significantly evolved. But like, for me, over. I guess for me, I. I can con. If I had the time, same as Jamie, to write all day, I probably would. But I'm. I'm a functioning ADHD er. So for me, I could write a few chapters or not chapters, a few paragraphs and then think the next process through. Go fold a load of laundry, you know, write a little bit more. Oh, go put the dishes away. Oh, this or that. If I was home all the time, I could probably finish something, but I'm not. I have to go. I have clients. I have these things. I can. I can think of things while I'm with a client. Like, oh, yeah, doing their lashes and I'm like, oh, yes, so Alice should do this and then dah, dah, dah, dah. Like it's in my head all the time.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Karisa DeLay:

I mean, so that's just for me. My writing process is from brain to page, so I'm always envisioning it. I just have to find the time to get it onto the page.

Rachel:

Yeah, I like to call that marinating. I'm always like, I'm marinating an idea or I'm slow cooking it and then it'll come out.

Jaime Vendera:

Yeah, I can't do that.

Karisa DeLay:

You're fast.

Jaime Vendera:

It's all or nothing. I will say that about Krista because for one, she's my most favorite tattoo artist ever. She's done quite a few amazing pieces on me and then doing the hair and extensions and this and that and handling all the girls and the volleyball and all. I mean, she's crazy busy all the time, so she's not. I'm not any more busier than she is and still she makes time. But maybe I need. I either need Adderall or learn how to marinate.

Rachel:

Oh, my God.

Karisa DeLay:

I make use of my downtime, let's put it that way.

Rachel:

Well, what. I mean, what is that? So for me, the timing of the day makes a big difference. And, like, usually it's after I put my daughter to bed from, like, 9:30 to, like, 11. So I'm like, I'm gonna write. That sounds great to me. I'm a night owl. I love reading at night, but that's what I can find.

Jaime Vendera:

Well, this is where I like Emily better than you.

Karisa DeLay:

Wow.

Jaime Vendera:

Now Chris is on your side. I can't write late at night. It's in the mornings.

Rachel:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Karisa DeLay:

We did an episode on that where we talked about, you know, late owls and, you know, early birds. And for me, my very first two novels, I. My first book I did in nine months. Like, bam. Every night writing every second writing that possibly could. But I had. I had, you know, three babies under the age of four. And so I was up all the time. I didn't have sleep. Was not something I had. So I used my lack of sleep to just create. And so those first two books were a lot easier to come out of me. I got the first one nine months, second one, 11 months. This one's taking years because I'm so much more busy. Because when I put my kids down, I don't know, it's like my. It's my. It's. Now that I'm in this space, it's like I'm decompressing. So I. I'm more creative at night for the most part. But at the same time, I have sprinkles through the daytime where I'm like, you know what? Like, right before we were getting on this, and I didn't realize it was like, you know, a minute pass. I'm like, oh, crap, I gotta go over here. I was writing of, like, two or three paragraphs.

Rachel:

So, yeah, it's random.

Jaime Vendera:

Yeah. But she can do this really cool trick, and it blows my mind. She can play video games and then write too. And I don't understand that.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah, I do that at night. I will play video games and write in between while I'm playing.

Rachel:

Now we're besties. Because I will do that too. And I'll also write with a TV show on or something. I just did a writing retreat with one of my really close writing buddies. And we watched all of the Twilight movies, two seasons of the Crown and all of Chernobyl. And meanwhile, just writing 3,000 words a day. And we're. We're, like, chatting like, oh, my God, can You believe that? Or like, oh, Edward, you're so dramatic. Like, right.

Jaime Vendera:

One of my personalities is team Emily and the other is Team I can't figure.

Rachel:

We contain multitudes.

Emily:

Gosh. I cannot. I cannot multitask to save my life.

Rachel:

That's what feeds my ADHD is like, no. If I don't, I just get bored. And then that's when I pick up my phone. Yes.

Karisa DeLay:

Yes.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Karisa DeLay:

It's why it's functioning adhd, because I can multitask and not feel. And some people are like, oh, you cannot multitask and be productive. I'm like, oh, but I can. Yeah, I absolutely can.

Rachel:

Yeah, I can.

Karisa DeLay:

And sometimes fit a 20 minute nap in there too. At the same time. Exactly. Yeah.

Jaime Vendera:

As you're writing, I can't.

Emily:

I tried to multitask this weekend and I burned three things in the stove. Three different things.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah. The last.

Emily:

The last one, I was just, like, so angry. We were going to a birthday party and I was like, I. I hate myself. I was like, I'm so angry at myself.

Karisa DeLay:

I was like, my brain can't do it.

Emily:

All I'm trying to do is get my daughter out the door and not burn the muffins.

Karisa DeLay:

That's hilarious.

Rachel:

So you're like, not writing and cooking at the same time.

Karisa DeLay:

I will.

Jaime Vendera:

Me.

Rachel:

I will too. I'll have my laptop up while I'm, like, stirring something.

Emily:

And like, that sounds so efficient. But I can't.

Rachel:

I don't know if that's the word I use, but I guess it gets things done.

Karisa DeLay:

Like, I really in the mood to write. So guess what you're getting. You're getting Crockpot foods today. Just put it in.

Rachel:

But Chris, when you're doing this, like, you know, snagging little time throughout the day, which I think is a really effective way to make progress over time, I think people feel like this was. This was one of the beliefs that I held when I first started writing, that I had to sit down and I had to have, like, a certain amount of time to get into it to, like, write anything good. And so I used to be like, nope, I can't. That's kind of how my after work writing started. And now I've realized that actually just works for my body. So I like writing at night, but I used to think you needed to have, like, dedicated amount of time. And once I became a parent, that was impossible.

Jaime Vendera:

So.

Rachel:

So then I was like, I need to write whenever I have time.

Karisa DeLay:

But do you think that sometimes that's a mental thing? That was Given to us when we watch movies where there's writers or authors in the movie. Like, yeah, I went and went to this retreat in, like, New Hampshire so I could finish my book.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Karisa DeLay:

And you're feeling. And then, like, they have this room that overlooks the bay and, like, you know, in Nantucket or something like that. And you're like, wow, that's amazing. And these private times and, like, they sit down and just write. I'm like, that's what an author is. That's what my brain thinks an author's supposed to be. No, that's not who we are at all.

Rachel:

It's all very aesthetic. You know, the. The projected version of being an author is all very aesthetic. And, like, most writers are. Do, like, have other jobs. A lot of writers. I won't say most. I'll say a lot of writers as they're writing, have other things to do. They have other responsibilities. They have other. You know, it's not just let me sit down in front of my picturesque view of the bay and get my words done.

Jaime Vendera:

Or, I mean, have. You're lying on the bed, have your feet tied up in the movie Misery. I mean, it's just. It's not the way it is.

Rachel:

Right? It's not.

Karisa DeLay:

Finish this.

Rachel:

Do you, like. Do you guys use, like, different tools to do this? I know Jamie said you write on your phone sometimes. That's more or less effective for me. Like, I use. I use Scrivener, and sometimes I'll take notes, but, like, what are we doing to get these words down in these kind of random snippets in the day?

Jaime Vendera:

I mean, the one thing that helped me. And this is from another friend of mine, Jeff Rivera, who we've interviewed. I remember years ago. He's like, oh. Because I remember they had dragon naturally speaking, which was really clunky, and it would do voice to text. He's like, no. He said, you can. They have a microphone on your Google. You can do that. This is, what, 10 years ago? And as soon as I was able to do that, I do. I guess I don't want to lie to you ladies there. I do have spurts. If I'm in a car in the past, I'm like, oh. And then I would do text to speech. So, yeah, And I still do that. I'm not really good at it, as Chris will tell you.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah, he's either got better at it or AI's got smarter about it, because.

Jaime Vendera:

I haven't gotten better. But that's the only thing that's Helped me. That's the only tool. But I can. I've written. I've written complete books with my thumbs on my iPhone or I have an iPad with a magic keyboard that I use. And of course, I used to use laptops.

Rachel:

So, yeah, just kind of anything. What about you, Karissa, again?

Karisa DeLay:

What's the question again? Like, sometimes I'm losing the question. I'm just like, moment. I'm like, wait, what were we talking about?

Rachel:

Tools you're using to, like, write throughout the day. If you have, like, these little snippets. Are you on. Are you doing something else to. I mean, writing can happen on the go. So, like, what's that version?

Karisa DeLay:

What's your. So for me, if I'm walking, if I'm on a walk by myself and obviously be really weird if I was someone else and doing this, but I will open my notes app and I will title it whatever chapter I'm thinking, and I'll just talk to it and I'll be like, okay, don't forget to do this. I'll just normally have a conversation. And like, I told Jamie, this is so weird. When I do this, I do it always in a British accent. I don't know why I do that. So if I'm talking out loud, as if I'm talking to myself, I don't do it in my regular voice. It's always British. I'm like. I feel like that's less the same.

Rachel:

Is it?

Karisa DeLay:

So I'm like. I told Jamie, I said, well, I do that. It's always a British accent. But then if.

Jaime Vendera:

Yeah, it is kind of weird.

Rachel:

That's awesome, though.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah, I know.

Emily:

It's probably a way to, like, dissociate the story from your. Your identity. Like.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah, I'm just externalize it somehow. Yeah.

Jaime Vendera:

Ye.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah. But either way. So that's what I'm doing if I'm walking, but if. If I am, like, in a stationary position where I'm, like, waiting on a kid to get out of something, and I have, like 30 minutes or so or less, I can go onto my writing app on my phone. Like, you can go to sudo write. I use a lot of sudo, right, to hold my stuff, and then I save it and other stuff. But I will. I will go into my chapters and I will just kind of see where I left off, if I'm feeling it, and I'll go in there and do that kind of stuff. So it's just whenever it hits me, if I have a moment to stop, I will. I will do it. If I don't, I just try to hold onto it and make a quick note to myself somewhere.

Rachel:

Yeah, you're taking that marinating and just processing it into.

Karisa DeLay:

Because I'll forget that I marinated and I'll burn it. Like, Emily.

Rachel:

Burn the idea.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah, the Emily will.

Emily:

Or.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah, the Emily idea will burn, and then I won't have it. I'll be like, oh, dang it, it's gone.

Rachel:

Toss that one out. Lost it. Start over. Yes.

Jaime Vendera:

I love that.

Rachel:

So expectations, though, I. It sounds like as you have grown and changed over the years and written more books, you've kind of adjusted to, you know, what you. This vision we're talking about of, like, what we thought a writer was and like, what a writer actually is. You have different expectations for yourself than you were. Than you did maybe when you started.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah. Volume versus quality of work.

Rachel:

Ah, okay. Yeah.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah. So before I was like, oh, I wrote. What is it?

Jaime Vendera:

That's why I'm so slow. I prefer quality of work over volume. Indeed.

Rachel:

Yes.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah, we're gonna go with that one. No, I feel like I. I've learned to. In the beginning, it's always. It's like a. It's almost fairy tale. Like, when you're like, oh, I wrote a novel. Like, you want to hit that, like, large novel that was kind of like a brick wall that Jamie and I faced was. Whenever I first met Jamie and he wanted to take my book, he wanted to break it apart. I'm like, no, no, we're not breaking apart. I did. I didn't. I didn't write 425 pages for nothing. We're not doing that.

Jaime Vendera:

So in my defense, it was like thinking she could have more books and make more money and we could do one six months apart. But that's. That's where I was. I was writing shorter books, reading her book. Yeah. Thinking now you can't break it apart.

Karisa DeLay:

Right. So that was more of, like, that volume. I wanted that novel. And then the series. It was like these.

Rachel:

These.

Karisa DeLay:

These words that were just kind of playing in my mind that I was attracted to. To complete. But now it's like, I. It's not that I wasn't trying to write quality because I had a vision in my head of the books. Now I've. I've surpassed that, and I'm more gained experience of not only the editing and like that, but shifting my pursuit more to, like, a more perfect book and taking the time to value it versus just creating that volume in a certain, you know, timeframe. And, you know, not getting too frustrated as a writer at the same time, still being able to, like, keep the creative juices going.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Karisa DeLay:

So I'm.

Rachel:

I'm. Sounds like you've. When you say, you know, you're trying to make a more perfect book, it sounds like you're in a spot now where you've learned a lot over the years and you're consciously putting that into, like, your efforts as you're writing so that it feels tighter, it feels stronger, and it feels like, you know, that this is a reflection of your growth. Is that right?

Karisa DeLay:

Yes, I would agree with that statement.

Rachel:

Yeah. Yeah.

Karisa DeLay:

I feel like that was just like kind of like it was on the witness stand or something. Yes. Yes. Accurate.

Rachel:

Let the record show.

Karisa DeLay:

Let the record show.

Rachel:

Let's love it. Love it. I mean, that's, like, a really important part of this too. Do you feel like that's become easier? Cause I. I definitely feel like, for me, as I've written more. Not that writing becomes easier, because it doesn't, which is weird, but. But, like, the more you learn, the process maybe is a little more knowable, a little easier, at least in, like, what you can expect of this part, this stage, you know, you're not forging forward into the unknown. You, like, know what you're doing a little bit. And so there is. There is a difference in. I don't. Easy is not the right word, but, like, you know what I mean? Like, there's a comfort in that, knowing that, like, I've been through this before and I can do it again.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah, I've seen this movie before. For me, personally, I wish I could somehow get with my old self and my new self together and somehow write a little bit more flowy and not be such a perfectionist about it. Because sometimes I will stare at a conversation, and I'm like, this is. I can just move on. But it's. It's like I can't mentally move past it unless I figure out what the words are. Now, with that said, recently, Jamie and I use Sudo, right? In which we've interviewed the engineer on Sudo, right, who works with the AI in the back end. Now, you don't have AI write it for you. I mean, there's options to help you reword or whatever. But what I use it for is I. And this is a new thing. And I love this. I love it for its organization, first of all. But for me, I love that I can write an entire chapter. And I just did this. This is a new thing. Write the chapter and then it will actually analyze your chapter and say, okay, this part, these are the awesome parts. These are the parts that are boring, these are the parts that are confusing. And this is the part that's unbelievable. Like, no one's going to believe this. I'm like, oh, it, I mean, it literally is like that person you're looking for to give you constructive criticism, but a little bit of positivity at the same time. Yeah. And then I go back in. I'm like, oh, it's so right. So you go, you have to personally go back and look at it and be like, okay, I'm gonna change this around. So it's actually something that has helped my writing process go faster. So I just write it down how I wanna go, makes my writing go faster, like I said. But then when I hit that, it tells me where I need to work on stuff and I'm like, okay, now I can go back and kind of fine tune that.

Jaime Vendera:

That's interesting.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah.

Rachel:

So you're making those changes as it's giving you that feedback before you move forward. Or you're just like, okay, I'm aware of that. I'm going to come back to it.

Karisa DeLay:

No, I have to do it in the moment because it's fresh in my mind. So I will write the chapter and this has made it, like I said, more, more efficient. I'll write the chapter and I'll just hit the little plugin that it's like a deep seek. So it'll really go in there and read your stuff and say what seems confusing. For example, I had the first chapter I was working on and the character was in her head, an inner monologue. And the inner monologue is italicized. And then the person that's in the thing is conversation normal. But it was saying the inner monologue is great. This is, it was telling me how awesome that was. But what the thing is, is not believable is why she went from this point to this point with this character. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that's true. I probably should have made a little bit more of a. A movement there between how she jumped to that thought process.

Jaime Vendera:

Yeah, this is like the non biased ultimate alpha reader. So for those of you watching, oh, AI. She's using AI. No, this. You could pass this, your novel off to somebody else and they could give you the same constructive feedback.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah, yeah. In longer time.

Jaime Vendera:

Yep.

Rachel:

Yeah. Do you. Okay, so you mentioned though, and we're getting to the top of our time, so we, we can start wrapping up here. But you mentioned, though, Chrissa, that you would love to find, like, the balance between the old version of you that was so flowy and free and the new version of you that's, like, learned a lot and is trying apply that learning and, like, write a really tight book. And I think we. We all kind of wrestle with those different pieces of ourselves as different parts of ourselves as we learn and as we grow. So imagine that you're talking to, like, you, I don't know, 10 years ago, or. Or a newer writer who's like, I. I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know how to make a writing process. Like, what would you tell them from. For try to walk this balance? Or like, here's the main thing I learned and I'm still working on it. Or like, what. What would be kind of your lesson or takeaway for, like, process in general? In.

Karisa DeLay:

In.

Rachel:

In growing, in changing and trying to find this medium.

Karisa DeLay:

So for. My personal advice would be not to step away. Even if you're staring at that one little line, you're still in the book. So I feel like when you walk away, you have to start all over. So stay in the book. Whether the flow. Because the flow may come, the flow may be there, and. Oh, I've got five paragraphs. I just did this. Great. Or I may only get one sentence. So we've talked about this in our podcast. Just write something every day, or at least look at it every day. Yeah, like, I think that would be my advice. It'd be every day. At least look at it. Look at your work or think about your work every day. Take time for that. That would be my advice. I love it.

Rachel:

Jamie, what about you?

Jaime Vendera:

And it may not work for everybody. I should take my own advice for yourself, yes. But just write every day. Quit. What I see with beginning authors. Like, I'm never going to finish this book. And I don't. I don't remember how he came up with the word flowetry. Chris.

Karisa DeLay:

Yeah, it's one of our words that we have a. We have a dictionary of words we create and make up on our podcast. And flow. A tree is one of them.

Jaime Vendera:

And so. But in the beginning, don't so many people get stuck in that paragraph or sentence. They. They try to write this perfect, elaborate, elegant sentence. Everything's perfect. It's like poetry. And you got to kind of meet in the middle and let it flow and don't worry about the typos. So, again, this may not work for everybody, but my process was and this was always my process with fiction. I would write a bunch of stuff, and when I felt like, okay, I'm done. I need to go do whatever, then when I hop back in the next day, I always had two parts. I would reread what I did so I could clean up the typos. I didn't even want to think about them. And then it got my juices flowing. And then I started writing again. So it's always, check for typos from yesterday. Write the new part today. Typos. Write the new part back and forth. And you know what? You may have to play around. It may be like Emily and I may be early morning. It may be right after school. It may be late in the evening.

Karisa DeLay:

But not when the muffins are in the oven.

Rachel:

Hard pass.

Jaime Vendera:

Yes. You don't want to burn it, but finding you can find that sweet spot that works for you. It's not the same for everybody else. Find what works for you. And who cares if it's weird? It could be like I go down and I'm riding in the restroom down in the basements, and the cats are coming in here. But at least, you know, but whatever works. Just find it. And just like Karissa said, consistency. You got. You got to do this. So don't give up. Stay in it.

Rachel:

Love that experiment, but keep doing it. Keep trying.

Emily:

Keep moving forward. Stay in it. Love it.

Karisa DeLay:

Just keep swimming.

Emily:

Just keep swimming.

Rachel:

To. To send us off here. Tell us again how our listeners can find you. And the podcast, the Always Right podcast.

Karisa DeLay:

So the Always Right podcast, you can go to alwayswrightpodcast.com, which that is A L, L ways. W A. Oh, my gosh, I'm a terrible speller. That's why I have an editor. W A Y S W R I t e alwayswritepodcast.com or you can go to alwayswritepodcast gmail.com and send us an email. And we're on all the. All the fancy schmancy podcasting outlets, and we also have a YouTube channel.

Rachel:

Love that. Yeah. Because you guys do like the video recordings, too.

Karisa DeLay:

Yes.

Rachel:

Which is pretty cool.

Jaime Vendera:

Yeah. So you can see my goofy faces. I make it worth the watch.

Rachel:

Goofy faces and all our hand gestures.

Emily:

What about your books? Where can people find your books?

Karisa DeLay:

Amazon. You can just Google our author names. Author Clarissa delay. Author Jamie Vendara. We're on Amazon. Barnes and Noble online.

Jaime Vendera:

Yeah, you can. Or you can head to Vendera Publishing if you want to break down, because we handle several other authors as well.

Rachel:

All right. We will put links for all of those things in the show notes so you can swipe up and tap away and go check them out. Thank you both so much for coming on. This was such a fun conversation.

Jaime Vendera:

That's been great.

Karisa DeLay:

Yes. Thank you. Love it.

Emily:

Awesome. If you want to build a successful, fulfilling and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.

Rachel:

Sign up now to get our free email course, the Magic of Character Arcs. After seven days of email magic, you'll have the power to keep your readers flipping pages all through the night.

Emily:

Link in the show notes. We'll see you there. Thank you so much.