Story Magic

89 - This is not marketing advice

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Today, Emily & Rachel talk about book marketing.

What you’ll learn from this episode:

  • What is going on with social media
  • How do we market our books when social media is in flux
  • Meeting the needs of your readers
  • Using universal fantasy to market our books

Ready to make readers so in love with your characters they can’t stop biting their nails in anticipation?  Grab The Magic of Character Arcs free email course: https://www.goldenmayediting.com/arcsmagic

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Emily: https://www.instagram.com/ebgoldenbooks/


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Emily:

Foreign.

Rachel:

Hey, writers. Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.

Emily:

I'm Emily.

Rachel:

I'm Rachel.

Emily:

And today we're going to talk about book marketing, but we're not going to give you advice. Okay.

Rachel:

Again, if you listen to our last episode, we just talk and record it.

Emily:

We do. So what we're talking about right now.

Rachel:

Emily, was like, I'm not telling you what my questions are. I'm like, cool. I guess we're just gonna chat about it.

Emily:

It's fantastic.

Rachel:

This is real. We're real people with just real conversations.

Emily:

This is really just how we catch up every week.

Rachel:

Exactly. I know. Like.

Emily:

Otherwise it would be all business. It's our secret. This is our hangout time. You're welcome. Okay. No, for real. So book marketing. Okay, this is coming out. This episode is coming out way later than, like, what's hot right now. So, like, who freaking knows what's gonna happen in however many weeks? But right now, today, when we're recording this, it is January 21st, and we've had a hell of a couple days, at least in the United States. And we're not going to talk about all of it, but we're going to talk about social media, because social media is like, it just feels like it's imploding a little bit. And Tik Tok went away, and then it came back because it was all a propaganda scheme. Terrible.

Rachel:

But I trim.

Emily:

I don't. Maybe this is just my little bubble. I don't know. But I'm seeing there are two things that are happening. One is when I came, when I finished Deadline, whatever, in December, and then January came, one of my goals for this month was to try to figure out, like, how do I want to market my book? And. And it kind of collided with, like, this huge question of, like, what the heck is going on with social media, right? Like, all these owners of these social media apps are pand to authoritarian clown, and, like, they're, like, bending over backwards to please him and, like, run his propaganda campaigns and, like, all this disgusting, right? And so that, like, just personally pisses me off. But I'm also seeing in my Instagram feeds and on my sub stacks and stuff that people are trying to figure out, like, what? Like, where do we go? Where do I go from here? Right? I think it's a personal question, but it's also maybe what I'm trying to do on this episode is make it a broader question. And that's why we named this not marketing Advice, because I don't know that we're going to have answers, but it just feels like this big question of, like, how do we market our books when, like, the best. The best ways, right, that we have found to market our books are being owned by these assholes and are being twisted and changed and, like, turned against us. It just feels like. So I just feel this sense from so many authors in my sphere of just, like, overwhelm and like, this, like, despair of, you know, if TikTok goes away or, you know, if I want to leave Instagram and I want it, like, because Meta. Right? Like, yeah, yeah. Then how am I going to make a living off my books? How am I going to sell my books? How am I going to get my books into the hands of people who want to read them? And I don't have an answer, guys, but it just feel. I'm just so, basically, I just wanted to pose that to you and see your thoughts.

Rachel:

God, I will fix the world right now.

Emily:

The world.

Rachel:

Oh, God.

Emily:

But, like, are you seeing that too? Is it me? Is it my bubble? Like, honest question.

Rachel:

I think we're all seeing it, but I think my bubble has reached a level of go yourself to everybody that they just don't, like, they're just digging in, you know, and I don't mean that in, like, a stubborn way. I mean, like, meta owns all our data. I still have to sell my books.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

You know, and like, on TikTok, that was weird. Like, let's go back to doing our thing. I. I just. I feel like we live in a dystopian time where it's unavoidable to exist on the Internet and not experience what we're seeing with these social media giants. And I don't have an answer, but I think in my bubbles, everybody is very aware of that. There's lots of funny jokes about it, which is great.

Emily:

That's so interesting. Like, just, like, the fact that we have very different bubbles, because mine is like an immoral principle crisis of, like, where do I go? You know? And I. I do think there's some truth to your bubble's approach of, like, we just have to do, like, we just have to use it. And I feel like all the. All the normal advice still remains right. Of, like, they own all your data, so if you can own a little piece of it, like, please, like, you should try to, you know, in terms of getting an email, a newsletter, even if you don't do anything with it, just collecting emails from people who care about your stuff. Like, I do think that that's a solution. Like my brain is trying to find solutions and I don't think there's. Yeah, there's a one size fits all solution.

Rachel:

No, but I don't, I don't think there is either. I think it's just like there's gonna be. So I think, I don't know if this is like a step by step or a cycle. It's probably more of a cycle and like each. This is not the first time that there's been an immorality freak out. I mean it's every couple months that something comes out. Oh no. And, and now Meta's doing this, and now TikTok is doing this and now the government. Like, it's just. I just feel that my bubble is so fucking tired of it and not surprised in any way, shape or form. And so you just simply make a meme and you soldier on. And like that's like, I just feel like everyone is just like, at least I have a curated my bubble. But I do think that my bubble is very aware of what just happened with TikTok. To be like, that was a ploy. Wow.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

But I think there are people who are like, wow, that wasn't a ploy. And like I'm not in that bubble. Okay. So I'm seeing like, I'm seeing my bubble's reaction, but I also don't think any of us were surprised, right? Yeah, I don't think any of us were surprised. I also think the consumer, the reader, the people that I'm trying to get to read my books are like a couple things. One, very aware. Two, they don't really care either. Like, I think everyone's just tired of caring. And three, looking for an escape. Well, what can I give them? Here's two books to read if they are wonderful escapes. So I think like, if I were to give marketing advice that this is not marketing advice but like when I'm marketing, I'm trying to give people the escape. Yeah, that's my, that's my thing. I there to me there is no answer to respond to what tech giants are doing to our communities and with our data. I can't do anything about that. So remember when we were just talking about like writing doesn't matter. I literally, I don't. I literally can do nothing. They already have everything they're going to know about me. The only thing that I'm kind of trying to do is protect my daughter. Right. What can I prohibit them from having about her? But I just filled out her kindergarten paperwork, and there were all these forms to fill out of, like, you know, permission and signing thing. And I'm like, I don't want you guys to have any of this. But we live in the end dystopian phase of this version of our society. And, like, it's inevitable in a very sad way Now. The. Now what I'm. What I'm aiming at, though, is like, I think the bubble that I know also feels like that and wants to forget about that. So I make content that is, like, go read about these smutty little stories because it'll make you feel good. Go check out these stickers that I bought to put on your Kindle to make you feel good. Like, I am just trying to carve out my little thing of, like, I can help you feel good. Please buy my books, you know, because that's also what I want. I want books that are going to make me feel good. Feel good. Did I tell you about the. Did I tell you about the Ironside Academy books? I don't think when. When I was sick, Amelia recommended this book series to me, and there's five books in them, and I read all five in five days.

Emily:

Oh, my God.

Rachel:

Yeah. But, like, that's the consumption that's waiting out there. Like, I could not handle how sick I was. I could not handle how crazy things were. I could not handle, like, the pressure. And so I just needed to, like, read a little book at nighttime to make me happy before I went to bed. And that's what I see is people are there. So I'm going to market to, like, those people.

Emily:

Yeah. I also think there's, like, to go back to our previous episode about, you know, that you're just one person of 6 billion that has no power and all the power. Right. I think it's important to remember, like, where we do and don't have power and be realistic about it because it's really easy to be like, oh, I'm gonna leave meta, because screw them, they are assholes. I have a lot of words I could put there, but. Yeah, but, like, that's. Is that gonna make a difference? Right? Like, is taking that sacrifice for yourself gonna really make a difference? And I think, you know, like, we can put our efforts in other places where we actually can have a difference on the human beings around us versus like. Like that it just feels like giving them. Like, you're not really doing anything. You're just.

Rachel:

Yes. And.

Emily:

And personally, I'm making a sign with my fingers. I don't.

Rachel:

I Don't know that one. So do that, make that sound and then let your hands do something and you'll figure it out. I personally agree with you and I personally, like, I've seen there's like a boycott that's supposed to be going on right now. And I, there were plenty of people like authors on my feed who are saying I'm participating in this boycott. And like, I also know the ramifications of that. I fully respect that. But like, personally, that would make an impact to me that I, I don't know, maybe this, maybe this is the controversial hot take. I don't think it's going to make a difference. And so I continue to participate. So maybe that's the wrong take on my, my end where if, if we all decided to boycott, maybe change would happen.

Emily:

But like, that's not how, that's not how any kind of change exactly works.

Rachel:

So I don't, I don't know, I think, but this, I, I was meaning to say this a little earlier and I think I got lost in like my ticking off the numbers on my fingers. But you, every person has to decide for themselves what level of comfortability they have with social media space. And if you're not comfortable with it, then make that choice and just be aware that like, this is how the system works and you're opting out of this system intentionally and like it's, it's going to have ramifications. Same with, like participating in the system has ramifications. And for good and for bad, what you say on the Internet stays on the Internet. And if you're not on the Internet, you don't reach the other people that are on the Internet.

Emily:

Yeah, I think it's, yeah, it's like, it's one of those double sided truths. Right. Where it's like, this is the best way to market books. Like, it just is. It's also absolute trash. Bullshit.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Emily:

And so like, you know, you kind of, we all individually have to decide, like, what does that mean for us.

Rachel:

Yes.

Emily:

And how we want to move forward.

Rachel:

I think the best way to market books is subjective. If you want to reach a larger readership, showing up on social media is a way to do that. But there are people that I know that have like massive social media problems. Then the best way for you might be different, but you got to put in the effort. Like showing up to sell your books on social media is still really challenging and difficult and time consuming and there's a learning curve and there are trends you have to figure out and it's not like that path is easy.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Same with, like, if you choose that you don't want to subscribe to social media. Cool. There are ramifications of that. But if you choose that and that's the best way for you to sell your books, then you have to build an email list or, you know, whatever else that other path looks like. Because I also think social media is a cesspit and, like, creates a lot of mental health. Yeah. Problems. Like, I had a little. A little menti Be on Sunday surprise because I got in this loop on social media of, like, all the ways that women are just treated so shitty. And it was just like video after video after video of, like, how horrible the experience is to be a woman. And I just was like, I know. And I'm like, I'm on here just trying to talk about my little books and here I am sad. Right. And then there's like, I could bounce out of that fairly quickly. I. I had some friends talk. I talked about it with my husband. Like, I was like, I am not in a good way because of that. Like, that was literally the thing for some people that's really challenging. And like, actually social media might be detrimental to your health.

Emily:

Yeah. Yeah, I guess. No, I think that's a. I think that's a good distinction because. Yeah, there is no one, like, the best way is the best way for you. Yes, 100%. So I like that distinction of, like, this is where. This is where a lot of readers are and like, where you could reach a lot of readers. But I do, I think, I just wish that there were better other methods. Get like, like there are other methods, but I just. I don't know. And like, that's just a wish that I have.

Rachel:

Yeah. I mean.

Emily:

And I don't have an answer.

Rachel:

Yeah, I wish there were other. I wish there were other methods too, and they just don't currently exist. But I think there are a finite number of options. That's what I'm saying.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And not, not necessarily that social media is the, you know, the end all, be all. But have you ever read the Universal fantasy book? Who's it by? Let me look it up real fast. T. Taylor. The book is called Seven figure fiction, how to use universal fantasy to sell your books to anyone. And it's about universal fantasy. What is. What are that? And it's by T. Taylor. And if anyone is like, I don't know how to talk. I would buy this book or I would read. I would read this book in some way if Your goals are to sell your books on the Internet. I would read this book for sure because it takes like, it, it like shows you what kind of messaging your readers are, will respond to and it helps you tease those out of the books that you've written and it helps you write them into the books that you want to write so that they are more marketable. And I, this is not marketing advice, but I think that showing up on social media it's, it works really well if you have a, have a goal, have a purpose, whatever that is. My goal right now is to sell my books on my author page. Cool. So I read this book and it opened my eyes a lot to like what kind of tropes resonate with people and how to talk about them, you know, why they, why they resonate with people. And that's helped me carve out like a little bit of messaging so that it doesn't just feel like I'm shouting into the ether. Read my books. I'm actually like, you're gonna like this part of my book.

Emily:

Buy it.

Rachel:

Like that's, I think also a little is knowing how to talk about it. Knowing like how to promise your reader that I will be an escape for you. Yeah, this, this book helped me identify that of like, I know you want an escape with this thing. Here is my book. I can be your escape. So that was really helpful. I also think like people because I also like, because I don't give a shit about social media in, in the greater sense of what we've been talking about. Like does it even matter? Yeah, I also think that like everybody relax. You know, like just post something. It is a blip of pixels on the Internet. Just post it. Like this is probably my take of it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Like to say it doesn't matter.

Emily:

Just social media doesn't matter.

Rachel:

Just stop worrying about like you know, I once. Okay, here's the, here's the cycle, here's the step for me. I've accepted that I'm going to remain here. I've accepted that like I probably can do nothing to change this system individually. Not that it should not be changed. It should be and as a collective we should change it. But individually I probably cannot change it. And then also I'm going to hopefully make my readers lives better so I will continue to exist and I'm going to sell my book. So I've like accepted a couple things and like they already have my data. Cool.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And if I get like, if I make a reel that's bad. I'll just archive the reel.

Emily:

Whoa, whoa.

Rachel:

It's not that big a deal.

Emily:

Yeah, Yeah.

Rachel:

I don't know.

Emily:

I'm hoping so. Maybe. Here's what I'm. We are planning to do a marketing workshop.

Rachel:

If you call it that.

Emily:

Yeah, it's a workshop. All of us workshopping together. Okay.

Rachel:

It's a workshop.

Emily:

Yeah, no, sure. In Tenacious writing, where we're gonna meet regularly. You know more about it. Cause you're gonna lead it.

Rachel:

Yeah. So, like, I had this idea of, like, market. I really think marketing is important, but there are some parts of the process that are really overwhelming for me, and those parts are not the same parts as other writers. So within our community, I want all of us to, like, come together and try to fill in the holes in each other's, like, knowledge and comfort levels. And like, I don't. I am not at all saying that. Like, I've figured Instagram out, because I certainly have not. But I feel like I'm in a good zone where I'm getting a consistent amount of real views. Like I, you know, a coup, like, maybe a couple times a month. I have a real pop off and it does great. Cool. Like, I feel like I'm in a good zone with that where I can only continue to refine that skill. But, like, the TikTok skill. Oh my God, I am, like, so out of my depth. And it's really hard to just, like, jump into it and see that's what you really do have to jump into it and see what works and what doesn't. But anyway, in this, like, workshop that we're going to do, it's going to be like a collective knowledge sharing, a group effort, skill growing. You know, we're all going to figure it out, we're going to do it together and like, hopefully fill some gaps in each other's knowledge to make it, like, easier for one another to get information that, like, actually makes a difference.

Emily:

Yeah, I think I'm excited because I think that that is a really. Will be a really interesting place to explore some of the questions that we came up today of, like, what other options are there outside of these social media assessments and, like, how, you know, what's worked for other people in terms of, you know, podcast interviews or doing events in person or conferences or, you know, like, there's other things that people have found success with that I feel like we could, could discuss and share advice on as well. Outside of, like, you know, these like, Instagram TikTok Facebook boxes.

Rachel:

Yeah, there's Those aren't the only free options.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Yeah. So anyway, we're doing that. We're doing that within Tenacious Writing. So if you're like, whoa, I really need that. You should join Tenacious Writing. We're going to be doing it later this spring and it's going to be. It's going to be like we're going to grow skills. So it's. It's going to be like a couple months. Deal. Most likely meeting once or twice a month. But alert. It's really meant to be a learning experience for all of us. Like, we're all taking a class together.

Emily:

Yeah. So it's gonna be awesome. So if you're curious about Tenacious Writing, it is our lifetime access program. You pay one price and then you're in forever. You get all future events included. So if you signed up now, you would be just automatically invited to this and all the other billions. We planned out like our whole spring today and the events are fantastic. Lots of things. So. So join us. It's going to be awesome.

Rachel:

Yes.

Emily:

And that's tenacious writing.com when you need.

Rachel:

To vent about how shitty the landscape of our world.

Emily:

Don't know. We're ending the episode before we go there.

Rachel:

There's community in Tunisia's writing and we will support you no matter what.

Emily:

Awesome. If you have the answers to how we can sell our books without the social media, please let us know. Info golden.com we'd love to know, but for real. It's messy out there, you guys. There's no perfect answer. There's only what is best for you and you get to decide that. Yeah. But also it's a cesspool and we are there. We're right there with you. We and understand.

Rachel:

I just sat I over the weekend also I set in a timer. My Instagram app. You what is that a time, you know, you can like, you can restrict your apps after so often.

Emily:

I break that every day.

Rachel:

I've been good so far. I was like, this will last approximately one day and it's been three days. And it actually has been really helpful.

Emily:

I literally was just journaling this morning that I need to set a separate because I use an app called Jomo. If you guys don't, don't know. It's fantastic to like block different sections of apps. And I was like, I need a block that's just for Instagram so that like, I have to specifically quickly break that block to get to Instagram.

Rachel:

I said that through your settings app can do that.

Emily:

I know. But then I. I don't know. It didn't work for me. I don't remember why, but Jomo's been better.

Rachel:

Maybe they've. Because I did it once a couple years ago and it was not really that much of a block, but this time it, like, reminded me. And then it was like, are you sure you want to go back? Like, when I went to go back to it, it was like, no. Are you sure? And then I was like, you're right, no. And then it also would set, like, you can have one more minute. And I'd be like, fine, one more minute. And then it has like a 15 minute one. And I haven't pressed that one yet. I've just been like, if I need the. Like, there was one time I was typing a message to somebody and it cut me off and I was like, just one more minute, please, please, can.

Emily:

I have some more?

Rachel:

I need more social media.

Emily:

Oh, my God.

Rachel:

Where would I get dopamine? All right, anyway.

Emily:

Fantastic. All right. It's rough out there.

Rachel:

It's rough out there. You're fine. If you want to build a successful, fulfilling and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.

Emily:

Sign up now to get our free email course, the Magic of Character Arcs. After seven days of email magic, you'll have the power to keep your readers flipping pages all through the night.

Rachel:

Link in the show notes. We'll see you there.

Emily:

Bye.