Story Magic

74 - Reviews and your ideal reader

September 12, 2024

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Today, Emily & Rachel talk about getting reader reviews!

What you’ll learn from this episode:

  • Mindset around getting reviews
  • Reviews are for readers (not for us) 
  • Knowing your ideal reader
  • Relying on your community


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Rachel:

Hey, writers. Welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.

Emily:

I'm Emily.

Rachel:

And I'm Rachel.

Emily:

And today we are going to talk about reader reviews. This is something I'm excited to have this conversation because we might have different opinions. I don't actually know, but I also think it's something that people are talking about a lot because there's goodreads, there's Amazon. You put your book out in the world, people have things to say about it. You can't really control that. It's like once your book's in the world, it's kind of out there. And so a lot of writers have a lot of anxiety about it and a lot of questions about how to manage it. And I don't know that there are right or wrong answers. And so I think, yeah, I'm excited to talk about it. So I guess I can start. I think it was Sabah Tahir in her stories or on Instagram or something who said something that really resonated with and stuck with me. And she said that reviews are for readers. They're not for us necessarily. And I just thought that was a really helpful reframe of like, people go to Goodreads to find books and to learn about the books and learn what other people are saying. Right. Readers go there. It's a space for readers to learn if they might like something or not. And I think there's something about that that's sort of like, it's like a safe space for readers. And so I know that there have been instances of authors responding to reader comments on Goodreads and stuff like that. And I do feel like that sort of takes away from that being a safe space when you're interacting with readers, especially in a negative way, but even in a positive way. Right. Like, I just feel like they're reviews are for them, and we then get to decide how we're going to go about processing them and, like, inviting them into our lives. But I'm curious, like, what are, what are your top?

Rachel:

I agree. So reviews are tricky. So here's like, the landscape. You have an author that writes a book that's really important to them. They publish it and put it out in the world to accomplish some purpose, hopefully to benefit the world around them or because they love their story and they want to share it with other people or to make money. You publish a book for a reason, as an author now your book exists, and, like, anybody can say anything they want about your thing. Yeah, that's hard. It's really hard. And I 100% agree that reviews are for readers. So I do not think an author should step into that space in their own book realm to be like, you know, they see a negative review and they're gonna comment on it, or they see a positive. Like, the only time that I ever respond to reviews, if someone tags me in a positive review and is like, I loved it, and then I'm like, thank you for reading. Like, that's kind of the only time that I have elected to cross that boundary. But, like, on Goodreads, for example, I don't think it's okay for authors to respond and explain themselves or to defend or whatever. So I agree. I don't think they are. I don't think reviews are for us. However, I think people. Readers often forget authors are real fucking human beings.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

It drives me crazy.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

And like, to explain myself a little further, I think 99% of readers are very kind, wonderful people that, like, even if they don't like a book, they'll be, you know, relatively understanding of why or explain why they don't like it in their review, and they're not intending to rip an author to shreds.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

I think there's a subset of readers that leave reviews that are downright hurtful and, like, personal and scathing and, like, thankfully, it's not very often.

Emily:

Or racist or racist. Homophobic or homophobic, horrible.

Rachel:

Or, like, in this one, always drives me fucking crazy. In, like, the mafia realm, there is an expectation that female main characters are virgins. And so if a character is not a virgin, there are readers that will leave negative reviews because of that. And that's fine. But sometimes they're like, readers have preferences. This is what I'm saying. Reader preferences are totally okay. If you don't like a book because of a specific trope or a specific author choice, that's totally okay. Like, there are some times where those reviews are, like, coming after the writer. Like, mean, mean, hurtful. And, like, I don't think an author should ever engage with that. Reviews are for readers. I 100% agree. But, like, as an author, sometimes I look at those and I'm like, I know that's hard. Why?

Emily:

It's hard. And I feel like. And I feel like that there's not really a takeaway y'all, for that, because I feel like it just is, right? Like, as long as live in an Internet space where anyone can say whatever they want, like, that's gonna happen.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Emily:

And so the question isn't, like, doing anything about it. You can't do anything about it.

Rachel:

You can't do anything about it.

Emily:

There's no way you write a book that pleases everybody. There's no way you avoid people just, like, trolling. Like, I I had somebody leave a review on my book. They. When they. They didn't finish my book, and then they were like, you basically stole your ending from another book. And I was like, you didn't even. You didn't finish reading it to confirm that.

Rachel:

That what?

Emily:

So, like, you cannot control what people are going to do in that space. And so the question then becomes, like, how, as an author, do you deal with that? And I think that that's incredibly, like, the answer is incredibly personal because everybody is different. And so I'm so curious, like, what was your process when blood in the water came out for handling this?

Rachel:

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so I want to add on a little bit more, because I think you're so right. Reviews are for readers. Authors still see them. So I want everybody to know that.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Because this was where I kind of got into this conversation in a very positive way. Not. Not in an argument, in a way at all with one of my readers, where she had mentioned that to me about a different book that she had read. Oh, well, that author reviews are for readers. And I was like, yeah, but the author sees them. So I'm saying that to be, like, to authors out there, you're going to see them. And that is where you can't control that. As you said, you can't control what people say about your book. You can't control, most of the time, the feelings that it brings up. That brings up the feelings. It just happens. So then that's your choice of, like, okay, what do I do to process this? So when blood in the water came out, I, like, I revisited a lot of what we talked about in the episode. We did. How to grow a thick writer skin. I think it's, like, episode. I don't know. It's somewhere. It's one of our earlier episodes. How to grow a thick writer skin. Um, 34. I revisited a lot of things we talked about in that episode. I. But I, like, also would try to separate myself from the critique about that book of, like, they're not saying I'm a horthless human being. You know, like, they're not. They don't. They're not, like, telling me, you know, it's not about me. It's about these choices. But then I also relied very heavily on, like, who my ideal reader was.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Of, like, you are not my ideal reader. So, frankly, I don't give a shit. Like, this is. And, like, I kind of took a little. This was personal for me inside my own heart of, like, the people who left negative reviews or the people who are leaving these types of reviews that, like, were a little hurtful. I was like, okay, you're not my ideal reader. So your opinion, honestly, frankly, means very little to me, because I wrote this book for a person, for an ideal reader. It's really resonating with the ideal reader. I'm really proud of it as it's speaking to those people, and it's okay that it didn't speak to these other people because I didn't write it for them. So I. I revisited a lot of, like, who's my ideal reader? And then I was like, was this person an ideal reader or not? If they were not an ideal reader, then I was just kind of like, okay, I'm gonna leave you behind because I didn't write it for you. It's not for you. I'm thankful that you read it. Thank you. But, like, I did, I wasn't trying to meet your expectation, so it doesn't matter as much to me. I also really relied on my community. There were a couple of reviews that cut really deeply that I sent to you and sent to a couple of my other friends to be like, I'm struggling with this one. Talk me out of it. Or this one seemed to affect me more deeply than other ones. Can you give me some encouragement? And I wasn't shy about those feelings. Meaning, like, I knew that you would get it. I knew a couple of my other writer friends would get it, and I knew that. I knew that you would see me in those difficult emotions and not, like, judge me for them.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

So I relied on my community a lot, being like, I know that I'm not going to do anything about this, but it still hurts a little bit. Can you help me process through this? Can you talk to me about, like, should I care about this or not? Or, you know, did I make a mistake with this choice that I made in the book, or. We just finished recording an episode on beta reading where we talked about, like, our intentions. And I did get some not even, like, critical reviews, but I had gotten some feedback that, like, disagreed with a very intentional choice that I had made, and I was able to go back and be, like, that choice for a reason, because it ties into the next book. So you're not gonna like this choice that I made, but I made it. For a reason. And that kind of made me feel a little bit better too, of like, I get why you would have wanted it a different way, reader, but yeah, you know, I'm telling myself, not them, I'm telling, I'm not engaging with those reviews, but I'm telling myself I did that on purpose. So I feel okay about that.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Yeah. What about you?

Emily:

So I had kind of a weird experience where I didn't really enjoy launch week. And I feel like the more people that I talked to about that sort of had that same thing. And a lot of it was because of this. You put a book out in the world, but then people have to read it and that takes time and so the reviews trickle in and, and for me, so I had the incredible honor of being chosen as an editor's pick for the Amazon first reads program, which, if you're not familiar, anyone who has prime can get early access to the ebook version of the book and it gets sent out with eight other books on the first of the month. And anyone with prime can choose. And my editor had warned me ahead of time because of the reach of this program people, I'm essentially like blasting it to a very wide swath of people who are not my ideal readers.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Emily:

And that became very quick, very fast because I started getting a lot. Like, I really wanted the validation and the excitement of like my books in the world and people are enjoying it. Right. So I was like, I'm just going to look at the five star reviews. But I didn't get five star reviews. I mean, I got a bunch from people that I know from arc readers, everything like that. But the ones that came in first with the DNF's.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Emily:

And I got a ton of DNF's on one day of people being like, I didn't finish this book because the main character's a bitch. And I just was like, well, yeah, she kind of is. That's the point. And so I was like, all right, we're done. And I just blocked everything. So I figured out how to block Goodreads and Amazon my phone. And it sucked because I really wanted to see the five star reviews. But I was like, I have to. Like, I had gotten to the point where I was refreshing, refreshing, refreshing. And I was like, we got to stop. This is not helpful. We have another book to write. This is pointless. So I blocked everything. It took me like three days to figure out how to get around the block, but that was enough time to sort of calm my nervous system and be like, all right, we're going to shift our relationship with this. And so I will still go on there and get excited about the five star reviews, but I, and this has taken an incredible amount of, like, self control and I'm actually impressed with myself. But I just don't look like you can click on Goodreads or Amazon and click on the reviews and you just look at the five star ones. And I just don't. Sometimes I go to the fours and then I stop and I'm like, there's no point. There's no point in continuing down this path. And so that's been really helpful for me. But also, I've had to really remind myself of the ideal reader question because I've had a lot of people who just, the book wasn't for them and they picked it up because it was free. Great. I'm so grateful for that. Also, it's like I'm excited for as it picks up speed and it starts, you know, the algorithm starts to push it towards the right people. And so, yeah, so my experience was a little bit different that way. But, yeah, it's tricky. I mean, a lot of it comes down to just knowing yourself and watching, like, paying attention. Because at first it was very exciting and I was like, I don't mind, like, oh, I got a one star, whatever, you know? But then it was like we started picking up speed and I was like, okay, now my nervous system has been activated. We shall do something different. And so that's. Yeah, so that's when I pivoted.

Rachel:

Yeah. I know a lot of authors that block review sites or that have, like, chosen. I don't read any reviews. And I think I went through, like, ups and downs of it. Like, I, I never blocked it. But, like, for the first week or two, I was constantly refreshing. And every time I would get something that was a little negative, it would be like a little ding on my heart and I'd have to, like, let me talk about this. Let me send it to somebody or, like, let me just sit with that for a second or go for a walk. And then it kind of slowed down a little bit where I was like, I am not going to look at this anymore. I'm going to take a break and not go on it. And then I went through, like a month where I don't think I looked. And then I was like, oh, I'll go back and look. I'll go see. Let me go check in. And there are times where you feel good about it and there are times where you don't. And then you just have to do what is right for you. Like, take care of yourself. This is the part where reviews are for readers, but they absolutely affect a writer's mental health. And so from the writer side, you just need to be aware of how to take care of yourself.

Emily:

Something I noticed with myself is I like to self sabotage. So I'll be like, I'm working on book two, which has been a very fraught process. And I'll be like, as soon as I'm in the flow and I'm feeling it, I'm like, let's open goodreads. It's terrible. And so I have started. I'm getting better about catching myself when I do that, but it's this weird self sabotage thing. The other thing that I'll do is when I'm feeling really down on myself, I will go read one star reviews of my favorite books.

Rachel:

Yes, it is.

Emily:

Hands down. It sounds so silly, but it makes you feel so much better.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Emily:

And then the other thing that you can. That I've heard some people do, and I kind of tried to do this with my husband. He was very bad at it, so it was mostly a fail. But you can have someone ask somebody to send you screenshots of your five stars. Like, if you have them all blocked, if you just, like, are looking for a boost, you can be like, hey, can you go on my goodreads and just screenshot me all my five stars? And that can be helpful because there was something really sad about when I blocked it because I was like, I want to know the instant somebody likes my book, you know? And so it's. Yeah, it was harder than I thought it was going to be to block it because of that.

Rachel:

Yeah. It feels like it's almost like a compulsion at some point. Like, I have. I have to see.

Emily:

I want to know.

Rachel:

I want to know. But that's part of it. That's part. And I don't know that. I was just talking about this with a friend of mine yesterday. There are some self published authors that have a backlist of, like, 50 books. And I'm like, there's no way they're looking at all their reviews. There's no way you reach a point.

Emily:

Where you just don't care.

Rachel:

I think, yeah, yeah. It just becomes part of it. But when it's new, like anything, when it's new, it just is a new thing that you have to learn how to manage. And then it gets easier now. Like blood in the water released in April. And when I would get a negative, like a one star review back then or a two star review. Like, I think about it for a long time, and now I'm like, it's August. If I see one, it's like, all right, we've been through this rodeo, you know? And I'm sure it will be so similar for only fools russian, where I'll be like, I want to see them all because I want to meet, like, there's another layer of this is the second book. Is it going to be as good, good as the first one? Is it gonna have the same amount of reviews? Is it gonna be higher or lower? Are people gonna. Cause then you compare to your own books, and I'm certain that's gonna throw me for a loop.

Emily:

Yeah. Comparison is a whole other thing.

Rachel:

Comparison is so hard.

Emily:

Mine was so bad. I was. Yeah. The comparison between me and the other first reads books, I was like, okay, we are blocking this page. I don't wanna see these anymore. I was like, that was bad. Yeah. So you just have to be aware. You have to pay attention. Pay attention to how you're responding to things. Recognize that you're human. Go re listen to the thick skin, episode number 34, because it's all super normal. And I think you reminded me during my launch week that it's just a weird week and it doesn't have to feel good. And I think just talking to people who've been through it can also be helpful. Cause it's actually one of those things that's really difficult to understand until you're on the other side of it. Um, so, yeah, find your book people.

Rachel:

Find your book people. And I. I do want to emphasize again, the importance of knowing your ideal reader. I think that is an exercise that a lot of people write off very easily, especially newer writers, because you're like, I want everybody to love my book. My book is for everybody. Everybody is going to enjoy it. So I'm writing it for everybody. And you're like, no, that's going to shoot you in the foot. Number one, from, like, a writing perspective. But number two, the benefit of really knowing your. Who your ideal reader is is. So now, in, like, the post published phase, I can clearly say whether or not someone is my ideal writer. And I can be like, that gives me some boundary to myself, to be like, okay, like, that's fine. That that's your opinion, because it wasn't for you. So I wrote like, I had. I have a list. I have, like, an expectation of who this person is and what they like and what they dislike and like what they've read within my genre and what they are going to enjoy in a book. And like, so, for example, my book contains explicit content, so, like, mind anyone.

Emily:

Who complains about that?

Rachel:

Yeah, exactly. Anyone who's like, this content was too explicit. I'm like, okay, I understand why you wouldn't enjoy explicit content.

Emily:

Also, the trigger warning was there.

Rachel:

The trigger warning was there. And it also is like, I didn't write it for you. Like, I wrote a book with explicit content for people that are unafraid of explicit content. So, you know, I'm going to get. You invite that by putting that into the world, and you're going to get people who, you know, don't like explicit content, and that's okay. And same with, like, you know, the other, the other side of being like, oh, well, I want to read a character who's, like, always likable. You're like, okay, well, I'm not working with themes that are like that. I'm working with themes that are dark and flawed and, like, how do you navigate a world like this?

Emily:

If you don't like dark women, don't read it.

Rachel:

You don't like dark women, you're not going to like it. So that's okay. I understand why you didn't like it. I think doing, like doing an exercise for yourself about who's your ideal reader? What do they want to see in a book? What choices are you making to speak to that ideal reader? Then you can have more confidence on the other side of like, okay, well, I was speaking to that person and I made choices for that person and for the other people. Well, of course they don't like it. It wasn't for them.

Emily:

Yeah, yeah, I think that's super practical advice. And I think as for what you decide to do once your book is out there and collecting those kinds of reviews, it's super personal. There's no right or wrong. You're allowed to change your mind and it's allowed to just kind of suck sometimes. Everybody looks at their, every single writer looks at their bad reviews and has a momentous. Every single one. So it's a universal experience that we have all been through. Talk to other authors.

Rachel:

Yeah, yeah, that I think. I don't mean to interrupt you, but I think this is what I mean when I say, like, reviews are for readers, but because. Because you're going to see them. But that's not, it's not your, as an author, it's not your space to engage in reader spaces. You still can engage in writer spaces now, does that mean you go and you, like, talk shit about all your readers? No, of course not. Of course not.

Emily:

If it's with trust, go ahead.

Rachel:

I mean, that's what I'm saying. Like, have a community. Like, this is also why I don't think writing in a silo will ever be successful, because this is the part where, like, I probably would have had a meltdown if I didn't know people who had gone through it before or if I didn't have friends that I trusted, or if I didn't have people who wouldn't shame me for feeling a certain way. So I was able to talk to those people, and they were able to pull me out of it a little quicker than if I didn't have anybody. Your writer community is who you need to turn to when you're struggling with this. Cause you will struggle with it.

Emily:

Part of it. Every single one of us. Yeah, it's part of the process. You would have to be a sociopath to not.

Rachel:

I know. To not care or just. You've done 50 of these, and so you're so zen about it, and who cares?

Emily:

There's, like, show me one author who put their debut in the world and did not have this experience, did not.

Rachel:

Have the reaction to it.

Emily:

All right, well, yeah, we understand. We're with you. Yeah. It's hard out there, you guys. But it's also so worth it.

Rachel:

It's also, like, really rewarding, too. So this episode is not meant to scare you off. It's meant to, like, those five star ones are amazing. Yes. It's meant to, like, see you in this space.

Emily:

Sorry to interrupt you, but another important thing is writers review books you love. Do it.

Rachel:

Yes, do it.

Emily:

Do it. Do it. Review the books that you love. I don't do it enough. I know I don't because people are so much more likely, I feel like, to go on and complain about something than they are to go and gush about something that they love, and the authors will see it in one way or another. It just means so much. So get out there and review your fellow writers.

Rachel:

Yes. If you want to build a successful, fulfilling, and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.

Emily:

Sign up now to get our free email course. The magic magic of character arcs. After seven days of emo magic, you'll have the power to keep your readers bipping pages all through the night.

Rachel:

Link in the show notes. We'll see you there.

Emily:

Bye.