Story Magic

66 - Writing is not always fun

• Golden May

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Today, Emily & Rachel talk about how writing is not always fun.

What you’ll learn from this episode:

  • The different phases of writing
  • How we naturally gravitate to different parts of the process
  • How to take care of yourself in the different phases
  • Developing self-trust and self-belief


Ready to make readers so in love with your characters they can’t stop biting their nails in anticipation?  Grab The Magic of Character Arcs free email course: https://www.goldenmayediting.com/arcsmagic


Join Tenacious Writing! With the perfect combo of craft, mindset, and community resources, you will build a writing life that feels sustainable, fulfilling, and fun—without any prescriptions or rules. Learn more: https://www.tenaciouswriting.com/


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Rachel: https://www.instagram.com/bookcoachrachel/

Emily: https://www.instagram.com/ebgoldenbooks/


Rachel:

Hey, writers. Welcome back to Story magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.

Emily:

I'm Emily.

Rachel:

And I'm Rachel, and today we're talking.

Emily:

About how writing sucks ass.

Rachel:

Yes.

Emily:

Rachel wrote that script for me and refused to say it for herself. No. But for real, y'all, we're gonna talk about how writing sucks is not always fun, which I think is funny, because we're both, I think, in, like, our least favorite parts of the writing process right now. Like, right in this moment, this moment of recording. Maybe not when this airs, but in this moment of recording.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Emily:

I am first drafting, and Rachel is planning her revision. And I know for myself that I hate first drafts. It's like, the hardest part of the process for me is where I find the most resistance. And I don't actually know if this is. If planning revisions is your toughest part, but.

Rachel:

No, what's my toughest part? And I'm quickly approaching it, which is why I'm not excited about it, and I have to. So, like, you get into retriever. I know you've experienced this, so I know you hate. But you plan your revision, you start revising. You look at all your scenes. You make all your time changes with him. Then you have to write a brand new scene. That's the worst.

Emily:

That's the worst.

Rachel:

That's the worst. You know what I'm talking about? That. Okay.

Emily:

That's, like, the worst possible moment of the writing, because as journey ever, hands down, I think anyone would agree with you.

Rachel:

You're revising. You've got, like, editing brain going on, and then, boom, you decide you need to write a brand new scene.

Emily:

Good luck. I've done, like, twelve passes of revisions on behind the Crimson curtain. And then in my line edit was like, I'm gonna add a scene. So worst. Oh, yeah. No, that's totally the worst. But I feel like that's different from, like, a phase of the writing process. Yeah.

Rachel:

Revisions are not my favorite phase. That is true and correct. I don't love them. I have already decided in my revisions plan, I need three new scenes, and I'm probably gonna do them last. So TBD, you're probably gonna hear another podcast episode about this.

Emily:

This is the difference between you and me. I would be like, I'm doing them first.

Rachel:

I need them, but I can't. I can't. Like, they happen at. They happen.

Emily:

You have to do it in order.

Rachel:

I have to do the revisions in order so that I can see the changes play out as they play out.

Emily:

I hear you.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Emily:

Oh, that's rough. I'm sorry.

Rachel:

Bars.

Emily:

I'm excited to read them, though.

Rachel:

Yeah, they're great. They're gonna be great and helpful. Even this morning, I was, like, working on Obi's internal obstacle, and I was like, maybe he needs a brand new scene. And I'm like, don't. Stop it. You got too much. No more new scenes. Just fake.

Emily:

Meanwhile, my revision is gonna be 100% new scene.

Rachel:

I think that would be my least favorite if I wrote, like, the way that I do.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

I would hate myself if I wrote.

Emily:

The way that you. My process is so chaotic for this book.

Rachel:

So writing sucks at.

Emily:

So, basically, this podcast is just me and Rachel bitching about how much. No, but I think it's so true, because, like, I was talking to somebody on the tenacious writing community. We were on an open coaching call. That's the word I'm looking for. And they were like, I'm not having fun. I was like, me neither.

Rachel:

Me neither. Are you having fun? No. Me neither. Have you seen that sound on Instagram, that real sound?

Emily:

Nope.

Rachel:

We need to record one. Maybe we'll record one for this episode.

Emily:

Are you having fun?

Rachel:

No. Me neither. Just in general.

Emily:

But, like, I feel writing is hard, and hard things are not always really fun. That doesn't mean that they're not worth doing. That's kind of my takeaway for this, for myself. This is really hard for you right now, and you're really not having fun showing up, but it's. Maybe this is a question for you, because I was texting you about this, and I was like, I am just like, so I'm just not having fun. And I feel like I'm in a different place than I was a few weeks ago, so maybe that says everything that it needs to say, but. But it really does. Like, sometimes I'll have weeks where I'm just like, I don't want to sit down. I don't want to do it. Then I sit down, and I'm like, oh, it'll get better once I start doing it. And then it doesn't, and I'm doing it, and I'm like, nope, it's not fun. It's still not fun. We're still going in the wrong direction. We still don't know what we're doing.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Emily:

And I finish, and I'm like, maybe I'll feel productive and, like, have an adrenaline rush when I finish. No, it just feels worse because I feel. And it just feels like this self perpetuating cycle. And I've tried, like, all the things, right? I've tried making, like, going to coffee shops and, like, treating myself and, like, making the actual, like, environment nice. And I've tried the meditations and the sketching and, you know, like, all the different tools in my tool belt. And then it just feels like sometimes it just feels like it's just gonna suck until I reach the end, and then I'll have fun revising. And, like, is that just the reality?

Rachel:

Is that the question?

Emily:

Is that the question? Do I have a question? I don't know.

Rachel:

Where was the question? No. I feel like sometimes it sucks. I mean, I feel like sometimes it sucks. You know, we had that one episode about a thick writer skin where we were telling people, like, you can't cut out the negative emotions part of this process. And, like, I think for some people that just sucks. And it's hard. But I would. I was on a rank together this morning with tenacious writing members, and one of the people that joined the ride together was like, I'm having a bad day, and, like, I can't figure this out. And this is really hard. And then, like, that it is. It just is, you know, like, I think sometimes it is just bad and really hard. And what we ended up talking about for her was because she had said, the only reason I'm not giving up is because I've done it before. And I'm like, that's self trust. That is self belief right there is like, you have been through it and you know you can get past it. And so, like, when you're in the thick of it, sometimes the only thing that you can hold on to is the belief that you have that you'll get through it. And it's tough when you're like, this is the first time you've ever done it. Cause you're facing new roadblocks that you've never encountered before. But I even feel like this revisions process for me is different because I've done it, and I know that I can do it again. And I might hate parts of it, but you get through them. And then I look back and I'm like, hey, nine months ago I was doing this and I finished it, and now my book exists.

Emily:

Yeah, I think that's so true. Cause I think that's also where I'm at, is like, I have never written a book this fast. So there's, like, that piece of me that's, like, trying to prove it to my. Not that I am proving it to myself. And I do have the self belief that I know I'm gonna hit my deadline and know I'm gonna finish the draft, but I've never had to write and revise a book this fast. And so I am holding on to, like, the faith that I can do it versus the proof versus, like, once this draft is done and I have my editor's notes, I don't have proof that I can edit a book that's this rough, that fast. But I do have proof that I can edit a book that's this rough. Right?

Rachel:

Yeah.

Emily:

And so I feel like once I get there, and also, I like revisions. That's, like, my favorite part of the process. So I'm feeling like once I can get there, then it will be different. And I believe that, but, yeah, it's hard. I'm like, the number of times I'm like, can I do this? I don't. I literally don't know because I've never done it before.

Rachel:

Yeah, brute force.

Emily:

I will do it that.

Rachel:

But, I mean, like, that's why we call our community tenacious. Writing is like, you will do it. It will be hard, but you'll do it, and then you'll look back and be like, I did it.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Yay me.

Emily:

I know. There's, like, that part of me that's like, oh, man, I'm excited for the next book.

Rachel:

Okay, so this is funny, because all I'm doing right now in revisions is just drafting the next book. I'm like, I don't have to revise this. I'm not on a deadline. I'll just write book three instead.

Emily:

Hey, at least you'll have all that behind you by the time you finish.

Rachel:

This morning. I was supposed to be working on internal obstacles, and I was actually just, like, brainstorming these emotionally devastating scenes that.

Emily:

Are gonna happen in book three.

Rachel:

And I was like, that's what I should do. Yay. That sounds great. I'll write those instead.

Emily:

So, this episode is for anyone who thought we had our shit together. We don't have our shit together.

Rachel:

Ever. That's why comparison makes no sense, because nobody has their shit together. We're all just faking it.

Emily:

Yep. No, seriously, though.

Rachel:

Yeah. Yeah.

Emily:

And, like, I don't want everybody to get down and be like, oh, no, I'm never gonna have fun writing again. But I do feel like there's phases of writing that we like more than others. And we still have to do all of them.

Rachel:

Yeah, we still have to do all of them. But I think the more you get to know yourself, the more. You have the fortitude for those phases that you hate. I mean, I'm early in revisions, so, like, the me in a month is going to be, like, loathing this, but I do feel, like, a lot, like, mentally sturdy. I feel like I can do it. I feel like it's going to take some time, and, like, I don't know how long it's going to take. And, like, when I'm writing those brand new scenes in the middle of all of these revised scenes, I'm gonna hate it. But, like, I do feel like I know myself pretty well, and I also really enjoy, like, rereading the drafts once they're finished and being like, damn, this is good.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

So I'm, like, holding on to the next phase of being. Like, this phase is tough. Next one I like better. And maybe those vibes can bridge me. The point is not that you need to do this to prove to yourself that you can. I think there's just, like, when you're in the moment where you know that you hate this, it doesn't all feel like that. Like, knowing that about yourself, it doesn't all feel this way. And knowing what phases, you know, bring excitement or make you happy or how you can find those little snippets of joyous, like, what brings me joy is complaining about revisions. So, like, maybe all you have to do is keep bitching about drafting and you'll get through it.

Emily:

No, that's probably true. Everybody's like, why are you doing this? And I'm like, I don't know.

Rachel:

You just keep talking about it.

Emily:

The writer's eternal question. But I like what you said about, you know, getting to know yourself, and I think you don't have. Even if you're, like, a newer writer, right? And you're like, oh, man, I have so much. Like, I haven't proven anything to myself yet, you know, and feeling, like, a little overwhelmed. That's super normal, first of all. But also, it's an opportunity, right? Whenever you try something new, you have an opportunity to learn more about yourself and your process and what you enjoy and don't enjoy. Like, I have learned so much already from this drafting process about how I really need to let myself explore. Like, I call myself a plotter, and I am. I plot a lot, but then when I actually sit down to write that first draft, I. It's all like, I cannot see the forest ever. I feel like that. And I was. I was actually thinking about that on my run that today. Like, that might be a difference between the two of us. Because, like, I struggle with, like, doing developmental edits too. And, like, going deep into, like, someone's full manuscript. Because I see all the trees. I see all of them. And so. And I have to, like, hold all the trees in my head. And it's not until I reach the end of my book or manuscripts or whatever, like, that I can actually back up and see the forest. I have to know every tree, and it's exhausting.

Rachel:

Yeah. Yeah.

Emily:

And I think I put too much pressure on myself to be able to see the forest before I'm ready to. And I just have to get words out. Like, I have to overwrite. I have to explore. I have to add, like, 50 billion secondary characters. I have to go down all the wrong paths within the structure of my outline. It's very strange because it sounds like pancake, but it's nothing. Cause I feel like what you do is very, like, straightforward. Like, every. Like you. I don't know. It's just watching you write. I don't know. Like, everything, like, links to the next thing, and it's all, like, cohesive and makes sense versus my draft is, like, 15 different paths.

Rachel:

I wish that we could, like, take a day and live in each other's brains. I know, because, like, we.

Emily:

Is that not how we legitimately?

Rachel:

No, it's not that. It's. I think, like, legitimately, we feel the opposite about each other's things. Like, you're like, it's so streamlined. And I'm like, I just make shit up. And then remember the other thing that I made up and then, like, decide.

Emily:

That it's gonna work here to not do that. I can't do that.

Rachel:

I think the only thing that, like, maybe. Okay, let's talk about for a second memory. Because I feel like my memory makes me fairly successful in writing, but I can't. Did I. I know I talked about this, but it might not have been actually with you. So tell me if I was talking about this to you when we met and when we made golden may, like, we already knew that I was trying to get pregnant. Did I tell you about. Have we talked about what I'm about to say?

Emily:

I don't think so.

Rachel:

Okay. When Emily and I met, I was already trying to get pregnant. When we formed the company, I was still trying to get pregnant. And then I got pregnant, like, almost immediately after we made the company. When you get pregnant, your brain chemistry changes and you encounter, like, this massive brain fog. And you know what I'm talking about. This is now I do for, like, yeah, for, like, two or three years, I was like, you only know that part of me, that version of me that has brain frog. Like, you only know that. And so I would feel so much, like, I have to. Like, it wasn't me. I. In those days, I had, like, lost so much of my identity because my identity felt lost in the way that my brain was different. You know, like, your brain when you're pregnant, your brain when you have a baby, and then your brain as you're breastfeeding is wildly different. Like, your hormones are different. It's all affected. And I don't think literally, like, rose was turning three, and, like, something flipped a switch, and I was like, my brain's back. Oh, my God.

Emily:

Like, whoa.

Rachel:

It's my identity. So I'm saying this to be, like, a lot of my identity is wrapped up in my memory, and, like, how. How strong I feel like, my memory is. And I had lost so much of it at the same time that I was trying to figure out, like, what kind of writer I was, what I was doing. I was learning all this craft stuff. I was building our business, and I was like, this is not my brain. This is not who I am. I don't know what I'm doing. And then once I started to gradually get out of that and my memory became a lot stronger, my writing took off. This is not a lesson. I'm just saying that so much of my writing process relies on using my brain's strengths, and my brain's strength is to remember like, nobody's business. But for, like, four years, I did not have that strength, and I, like, had no idea how to do this. And you'll also, in those two or three of those years, I wrote nothing. Nothing, because my process couldn't work. I was like, I can't write this way if I don't have my memory.

Emily:

So, because I feel like my memory is really bad, so, like, it probably.

Rachel:

Is because your brain chemistry is different right now.

Emily:

Right now. But I feel, like, in general, like, when I. When I say, like, I need, like. So I was working on an edit letter this morning, and this episode is so wild, you guys. I know. What are we talking about? I don't even know, but I think that the people will get stuff from this. I was working on an edit letter this morning, and, like, I read through the manuscripts, and I took notes in my remarkable, and I am going back through, and I have to collect all the little notes that I took in order to, like, put together a picture of, like, what it is that I want to say, like, I can't just be like, okay, I read the book now. Like, here's what I think about it. Like, I have to collect all the little trees, and then I have to put them in a letter, and then I have to organize them, and I have to, like, figure out what I want to say. And I do think that my geniuses lies in, like, finding the meaning behind details like that. And I know that as a writer, that that's, like, I. Once I'm done with, like, my 50th draft, like, the intricacies of how things connect and, like, the way that the nuance plays out, like, that is what I think is really valuable about my writing, but I can't get there until I have all the trees.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Emily:

And so it's, like, really frustrating for me. I'm trying to make all these connections, and I'm trying to, like, you know, put together all these little puzzle pieces and, like, make all these intricate nuances, and it's like, girl, you don't even have, like, the ground floor down yet, let alone seedlings. Like, come on. And so my brain can't work linearly because that's, like, I have to build the whole forest floor first and then grow the trees from there. And so the reason that I brought that up is because with memory, I was looking back at these notes that I took at the beginning of the manuscript for this person that I've only been reading for, like, two weeks, and I'm like, I don't even remember saying that. It's genius. And so I have to, like, collect all these thoughts that I have and figure out how to make them cohesive versus, like, yeah, my memory is so bad in that way. Cause I just. I hyper focus on, like, the details, and I just, like, lose. I lose the. All the details that I had last week.

Rachel:

Well, that would. That would be, like, like you said, getting to know yourself, that's really important about how your brain works. And then that would be, like, what I would latch onto when all of this is terrible and, like, you hate it. I'd be like, I know. I'm just collecting my notes. Yeah, I'm collecting my notes right now. And when it's all done, then I can figure out, like, all the meaning. I can make the connections. I can see everything that I need to see, but right now, I'm laying the forest floor, and that. That then, like, you still have the discomfort of how difficult it is, but you can fall back on, like, the trust that you're just doing what you need to be doing.

Emily:

And that's what I've been learning. And what I think I'm going to take into the next project that I work on is not. And I've been doing this as much as I can for this project, much more than I did for my previous book's first draft, where I'm just letting myself do that, knowing that it's wrong. And that's incredibly uncomfortable for me. And I think that's where the not fun comes in. But as I'm paying attention to what I'm doing and what I think I'm doing and how this is working and what my process is for this book, all of that is going to inform how I approach the next project, where I'm probably going to spend a lot less time outlining and just, like, go, because I'm going to have to rewrite it anyway. I'll just go. And so, yeah, you build and you iterate on your process, and each project is different, too, which adds its own complexity. But I do think the more we get to know ourselves. Yeah. The more clarity we have on why something isn't fun. Right?

Rachel:

Yes. Yeah. I also feel like the revisions of this second book might feel a little different because I spent a lot of time in the first book diving into, like, backstories and histories, and so, like, I have a lot of groundwork that I'm now doing in book two that I already did. And so now it's just, like, calling on those pieces and highlighting those pieces and hoping that I haven't, like. Yeah, I know. I know. Exactly. Hoping that I haven't, like, screwed up.

Emily:

In a previous book that's already published and you can't change it.

Rachel:

Yeah. Yeah. Hoping that I haven't, like, made a decision that I. That I now am, obviously, that I 100% think that's gonna happen. Like, I'm going to be making decisions in book one that I look at in book two, and I'm like, whoops, now I'm stuck. I kind of want to change that, but it's like, I also feel like I'm really good. I've told you this before. I'm really good at, like, making a lot of shit up, and I'm really good at, like, rationalizing and justifying things. So I am. I am able to form a lot of these connections and, like, explain away some of these things, and I have no problem with that. But then I get to rely on my readers to be like, do you buy it or do you not buy it? Because if you buy it. We're good if you don't go back to the drawing board.

Emily:

This episode is my favorite one that we've ever recorded. Okay, so what's the takeaway?

Rachel:

Is there one? I don't know. Writing sucks ass.

Emily:

Writing is hard. It's complicated. It's unique. It's different for everyone. You have to pay attention to your own process and find, like Rachel said, find the joy where you can find it. And then just, like, caveat. If writing is miserable, and I mean, like, all the time, it's all the time miserable. You're never having fun. Like, everything is horrible. You're beating yourself up. Your inner critic voices are really, really, really loud. That's different.

Rachel:

Yes, it's different.

Emily:

That means that you have some internal voices, probably hustle voices, perfectionism. Voices that are giving you shame that are, you know, that are generating shame over your process and your writing and wherever you're at. And that's different. That is not something that you can just, like. Like, we're talking. I feel like we've spoken a lot about just, like, getting through it. Just push it through. Right. And that you don't. We're not gritting our teeth and pushing through, like, shame cycles.

Rachel:

Yes. Yeah. I feel like there's now that makes me want to add, like, two more things. One is that as a neurodivergent person, I am not. I literally will not do this if it is not, to some degree, fun and enjoyable. Like, I have very little patience in the endurance. I guess what I'm saying is, like, if the. If I didn't love writing and have fun doing it, most of the time, I literally just wouldn't do it. I just would, like, find all sorts of executive dysfunction reasons to not do it. So this period, for me right now is, like, I might have trouble with this part of the process, but generally, I really enjoy writing. I love writing. I wouldn't do it if I didn't love writing. So I think that's important to be, like, if you are hating writing or you're hating it all or you're miserable all the time, like, that's when you can get curious about, like, what's really going on here. Because if you really, really hated writing, I don't know that you would do it. I don't know that you would continue to put yourself through it. So you can. You can get curious.

Emily:

Yeah. Why are you showing, like, what are you trying to prove?

Rachel:

What are you doing? Yeah.

Emily:

What. What part of your identity or your self worth are you. It's attaching to it. That is unhealthy.

Rachel:

Yeah. And I'm not trying to say, like, give up if you hate it. No, I'm saying the opposite of, like, if you love it but you hate it, there's something else going on. Like, if you want to do this, but you hate it, there's something else happening. Second piece is, like, the creative energy that I have during revisions is vastly different than the energy that I bring to drafting, where, like, I love fast drafting. If I draft, like, as fast as I can, because otherwise I just would stop. Like, I am going to go as fast as I can. I have way more endurance. I have way more fortitude to, like, draft super, super fast. I could write two. I did for this draft, right? On average, over 2000 words a day for three months. That was how I got this draft done in three months. So, like, that's excellent for me. Yay. Revisions. I'm already, like, I'm tired.

Emily:

I'm such the opposite. That is so funny.

Rachel:

Yeah. So I'm like, I want to go play the sims. Like, I'm literally, like, it feels painful how much I'm stopping myself from playing the sims right now. Like, I want to go do other things that can engage me, that can refill my well, but I have to, like, be a little careful. My point is, I'm taking care to adapt some to my different energy levels where I am not revising for as long as I would draft. I'm, like, revising for maybe an hour where I could draft for, like, three, but I'm revising.

Emily:

I'm the exact opposite.

Rachel:

I'm like, I need to go read a book or, like, I need to go scroll on my phone. So I think there's, like, also in it, you can't treat them. They're not the same for me. I can't treat them the same way. I need to, like, baby myself when I'm revising.

Emily:

Such a good force. That's such a good point. Cause I'm the exact opposite. I'm having to babies myself right now. And, like, my creative, well, dries up real fast when I'm drafting. And so I have to, like, which is frustrating, right? Because I'm on a deadline, and then there's people like Rachel out there who are writing 2000 words a day, no problem, right. And there's, like, all that pressure to be like, oh, I can keep up. I can just get words out, right. It's exhausting for me. And so I've had to, I had a really big may that was a lot for me. I don't remember exactly how much it was. Almost 50,000, I think, that I drafted in a month, and then I've been eking out three scenes a week eking them out, and I've just slowed down so much, but I've had to refill with just binge watching all of the Bridgerton seasons and other ways to refill my energy. But once I get to revisions, no one's gonna hear from me for, like, months. Like, I will just be in a.

Rachel:

Riding cave with endless energy, and you'll be so happy. And I'm like, ugh. Like, you're. I'm gonna take the whole summer revising, and you're gonna be done drafting by.

Emily:

The time I'm done revising is my obsessive stage where, like, it's all I can think about because I'm holding the forest in my head, right. And I'm, like, trying to sort all the puzzle pieces out, and that is just, like, it's all consuming. It's all I want to do, which I feel like drafting. Is that for you?

Rachel:

Yeah, it really is.

Emily:

All I want to do is.

Rachel:

All I want to do is draft book three. I'm like, give me book three. I'll go draft that.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

So I just be a little. If you're in a spot where, like, you're not enjoying it as much, I think, take better care of yourself.

Emily:

Yeah.

Rachel:

Or different. Different care of yourself.

Emily:

Okay. We could talk about this forever, but point is, writing is hard. Figure out what works for you.

Rachel:

Yeah.

Emily:

You're your own unique person.

Rachel:

You can do it. Just be tenacious.

Emily:

All right. I don't remember.

Rachel:

I don't remember.

Emily:

I'll do it if you want.

Rachel:

I'm going to leave this in.

Emily:

Okay. Love you guys. Okay. If you want to build a successful, fulfilling, and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.

Rachel:

Sign up now to get our free email course. The magic of character arcs. After seven days of email magic, you'll have the power to keep your readers flipping pages all through the night.

Emily:

Link in the show notes. We'll see you there. Bye.